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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by CAISSACA on November 30, 2004
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Let's get a grip indeed - I totally agree with everything Nightflight99 said.
Adult Hydrodynastes are big, fast moving snakes, and if you are unlucky enough to get a prolonged chewing bite, then you will have a very sore arm for some days, but you are extremely unlikely to have any more serious problems than that. Get a juvie, so you and the snake can get used to each other, watch out for the feeding response - and enjoy.
There is just no comparison between the potential of this species and any viperid to cause you damage.
As for legislation, you need to get the exact details of your state/county/city rules. Unless that species/genus is specifically listed, or unless your local legislature defines "venomous snake" in a manner that unambiguously includes Hydrodynastes, then I would keep it as a non-ven and bypass the permit system - after all, the vast majority of colubrids, including even garter snakes, are technically venomous, yet harmless, and I doubt they were what legislators had in mind when they drafted the relevant rules.
Cheers,
Wolfgang
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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by Chance on November 30, 2004
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Whew...I was hoping someone was going to chime in and speak a few words of wisdom. Short of boomslangs and twigsnakes (Dispholidus and Thelotornis sp respectively)...maybe Rhabdophis as well....you just can't logically conclude that any opistoglyph but those is going to pose more danger to you than any viperid species. I love that thought behind copperheads that has somehow held on.."oh, it may only make you a little sick." We're talking about the potential for necrosis here! As compared to the potential for a bit of swelling and discomfort if you let your FWC chew on you for a bit.
Having kept two large adult Hydros myself for a while, it is my opinion they make great, maybe even the best, entry level venomous snakes. Unlike mangroves, these guys eat (and do they eat!! whew!). They are also generally docile, just watch the feeding responce. They are active by day, so they make good display animals. They reach impressive sizes and are, IMHO, a very attractive species. The only thing I can't stress enough about them is their feeding responce. I was once chased around my herp room by my adult male. He must have decided my toes made decent mouse replacements (I was trying to take pictures, by the way). It was interesting. Anyway, I think they're a fascinating species and I always recommend them as a good beginner venomous, especially a good beginner rear-fang (next to hogs, of course). Good luck!
-Chance
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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by bush_viper17 on November 30, 2004
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my pigmy eats mice pinkies well. Alive or f/t. IT was actually hard to get him to eat lizards. It took him an hour almost to even start to smell of it after he bit it. But I feed him pinkies all the time and he never has problems. He even ate a pinky the second day I had him and he was wild caught.
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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by Samuel on June 26, 2006
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I too am thinking about getting a FWC. I have kept snakes for the last 8 years and have quite a few right now. I think what you all are saying is even if you get a long chewing bite all you will end up with is a bad Charley horse for a few days. (and the blood not clotting right and pain at first. nothing that you would need to go the the ER over. Right? I need some more info about thease guys first though.
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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by Will0W783 on April 3, 2009
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I just got myself a male FWC. I have always loved cobras, but am not totally comfortable with the devenomation process and don't have the experience to keep a lethally venomous snake yet. I can tell you that I adore my FWC. He is alert and very curious about his surroundings, me, and the other snakes in the room. I use gloves to get him out but once he is out he shows no aggression or defensiveness. I also have a western hognose who is the same way. I would recommend a FWC or hognose to anyone looking to get into venomous. The FWC so far is stunning in coloration and pattern and hoods quite nicely. Good luck with your decision!
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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by AquaHerp on April 5, 2009
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I would never compare a false water cobra to a timber, or really any rattlesnake for that matter. I guess I worry if one is overestimating the gigas, or underestimating the horridus?
Although not a true cobra, you wouldn't know that by the cleaning frequency. :)
DH
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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by FSB on April 6, 2009
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First of all, and I'm not coming down on you here, only giving advice (you asked for it!) - you need a LOT more experience with all types of nonvenomous snakes before you even think about "hots." I like to say at least ten years - and you really need to have a very powerful, overriding desire to learn all you can about every type of snake, and other reptile, and their natural history. Unless you really think that herpetology is going to be the main, consuming interest of your life, then content yourself to enjoy seeing venomous snakes in zoos. It is in no way a short leap from keeping a ball python and a rainbow boa to working with any type of venomous snake. Even university students working in herpetology labs are typically forbidden to work with or try to collect venomous snakes.
Second, you should first find an experienced mentor and work with their snakes for at least a year before you even think of keeping these snakes on your own. There is no room here to learn from your mistakes.
Hydronastes would be a terrible choice for any novice snake keeper. They grow very large, are extremely nervous and active (a world away from a ball python or rainbow boa); they are messy and a lot of work and their feeding response is over the top and could be utterly frightening to anyone who wasn't fully prepared and experienced. Also, the byword is, if the toxicity of a venom is little known or understood, then it should be considered dangerous. Famous herpetologists have died as a result of underestimating the danger of opistoglyphous snakes.
Besides, I don't see that keeping opistoglyphous snakes is in any way a stepping stone to keeping proteroglyphs or solenoglyphs. It just doesn't work that way. Snakes are not "ranked" in their dangerousness to humans (or in their "keepability"), and there is no prescribed course that one could recommend, other than getting to know as much as one can about every species possible. They are all very different and have their own particular apsects and behaviors that can only be learned with a great deal of time and patience, like learning to master a musical instrument. You may learn some useful things from keeping watersnakes, or racers, but any one of them will only provide a tiny piece to what is a much larger puzzle, and no type of snake on its own is going to teach or prepare you how to deal with another. Copperheads may be the best choice of a first venomous snake to work with, but again, one should first gain experience working with them in the collection of an experienced mentor (and, ideally, in the field as well) before trying to keep them oneself, and one should basically be a qualified snake expert in every other respect as far as having a broad and in-depth knowledge of ALL snakes before even going there. The safety of the keeper is not my only concern either. I have known venomous snakes to suffer horribly from being in the "care" of unqualified keepers whose fear of them gets in the way of good husbandry.
One should also do quite a lot of soul-searching, which only you can do. You really need to seriously and honestly question your motives and desire to keep venomous snakes - what would be your ultimate purpose and goal in doing so? Also, if you are not fully independent and on your own, you are putting a huge responsibility upon parents, family members, friends etc. who would suffer a great deal as well should you ever be bitten.
Find people in your area who are also interested in snakes - inquire around college or university biology departments, local nature centers, 4-H, etc. Volunteer at a zoo or aquarium. Join your local or state herpetological society and become active in the herp community. Read, read, read, and learn all you can. Snakes and other reptiles are great, fascinating things to be interested in, but don't be in a hurry to keep venomous snakes. They will always be around (at least, we hope!) but if you try to rush things, you may not be!
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RE: False water cobra-first hot?
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by FSB on April 6, 2009
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Oops.... wish I had seen page #2 here before writing all that. Oh well... a little redundancy couldn't hurt.
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RE: FSB's post
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by psilocybe on April 6, 2009
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I suppose this is all a matter of opinion, but as others have mentioned, I think we should avoid overstating any potential dangers associated with Hydrodynastes and simply state the facts as they are known to this date.
Hydrodynastes DO get quite large, and are active, FAST, inquisitive snakes, that can be quite defensive if not handled regularly.
I would not think that a person would require 10 years or more working with a variety of non-venomous to successfully keep Hydrodynastes. I certainly wouldn't recommend them for a first snake (not a first hot, but a first period), but I think that even someone with fairly limited experience can safely keep them PROVIDED THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE, CAUTIOUS, AND HAVE COMMON SENSE. That is a big if in today's age, I do realize that.
Unlike boomslangs, African twig snakes, and keelbacks, false waters have had a long history of being safely kept in captivity, with many reported bites, and not a single known fatality. True, several opistoglyphic species are now known to be fatal, and many others are suspected to be capable of serious envenomations owing to more complete studies of their venom and delivery capabilities, but Hydrodynastes is not one of these. Surely with their long history of captivity, and their relative popularity, any serious, potentially-life threatening cases of envenomation would be known. Many keepers report their bites (even prolonged chews) to be mild (swelling, discomfort, etc.), and some are even asymptomatic.
All that said, I do agree that they should be afforded the same caution and respect one would give any venomous snake. A bite from a large specimen is not going to be a pleasant ordeal...forget about the venom, the jaw power this species possesses is possibly only rivaled by Drymarchon. I have a 3.5 year old pair, who I've never fed live prey, but judging from how they treat their f/t prey, I'd venture that, like indigos and cribos, these snakes pretty much rely on just crushing their prey to death in those brutally powerful jaws of theirs. All in all though, starting with Hydrodynastes will allow you to learn some basic venomous husbandry and precautions, without the EXTREMELY steep learning curve keeping more lethal species carries.
Relating to that, and what others have said, feeding time is easily the most dangerous occasion with these guys...and with their appetites, it happens often.
And again...these guys can be very fast. If you have limited experience, count on making a few mistakes. Wear gloves and a longsleeve shirt, and that should protect you from any bites (so long as a large one doesn't go for your face ;) ). Force yourself to use a hook and avoid freehandling them, if for nothing else just to get used to it.
Anyway...the the OP, think it through, decide if you really think you're ready for an FWC based on the advice given here, and if you think so, go for it. At least you're doing your homework. That's always a good sign. Treat them like you would any venomous, and if you plan on advancing in this hobby, some of that basic experience (getting familiar with a hook, carefully observing and understanding body language and behavior, etc.) will apply to other species.
Get a young specimen, and grow with it. This scenario is not fitting for ALL venomous snakes (i.e. getting a young black mamba, and trying to grow with it probably isn't a great idea), but I see no harm in applying it to Hydrodynastes.
These snakes are awesome to keep. I hope to be producing some this year. We'll see what happens.
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