thought I would share some new regulations... - experts Forum at VenomousReptiles.org

thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by stopgetinpopped on December 11, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
*This is information that a state official gathered and thought I would share it with you all "10 states ban the possession of reptiles, 5 states have a partial ban, 11 states require a permit and 26 states allow the possession or have no laws. I would guess that as the word gets out, most of the 26 states will follow suit. As you and I spoke when you were here, I prefer a licensing procedure rather than a ban." And this is the new regulations that went into effect, curious to see what you all think. ** Board Order Adopted by the North Dakota Board of Animal Health December 8, 2004 Venomous reptiles – persons or facilities wanting to keep venomous reptiles are required to meet the following conditions: 1. Describe and demonstrate to the Non-Traditional Livestock Council (NTL) the ability of handlers to maintain and control the animals safely. Relate details to the NTL of the experience of handlers with venomous species. 2. Provide details to the NTL including photographs of housing, feeding and handling techniques. 3. Maintain quality caging that is individually locked, with all cages containing venomous reptiles housed in a locked room. 4. Identify each individual animal with a method which readily distinguishes one animal from another, such as microchips. Photographs may be used for species that show a variance in color patterns. 5. Provide details to the NTL of a safety plan which takes into account how a potential emergency, including a bite, will be dealt with so as to avoid loss of life or serious injury. Inform local EMS, fire department and law enforcement of the presence of venomous reptiles in case of an emergency situation. 6. Contact a local hospital and show proof that they have been made aware of the venomous animals that will be in your care and that you have provided them with appropriate information that alerts them as to their role should a bite occur. Provide proof that appropriate antivenins and other emergency drugs are readily available should they be needed. Annually, provide proof that these drugs are being kept properly and up-to-date. 7. Provide a list of species being considered for accession and inform the office of the State Veterinarian and the local hospital mentioned in #6 of any new species that are acquired. 8. Importation- all venomous reptiles require a valid health certificate and an importation permit to enter North Dakota. The North Dakota State Veterinarian’s office must be called for a permit number that is to be written on the health certificate. 9. Penalties- due to the potentially dangerous situation that is created with the presence of venomous reptiles, any violation of any of these conditions may result in disciplinary action including, but not limited to: a. confiscation and/or destroying all venomous reptiles in the collection b. a fine of up to $5000.00 for each violation TaPhillip ----- It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts! Terry Phillip Curator of Reptiles Black Hills Reptile Gardens Rapid City, SD. www.reptilegardens.com

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by AquaHerp on December 12, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
Everytime I see a picture of someone free-handling a venomous snake, or spouting off how they have a knack for handling without equipment, it reminds me just how easy these regulations get passed.

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by Snakeman1982 on December 12, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
I can certainly understand how these type of laws can really hurt some venomous keepers who know what they are doing but also consider the benefits. It will keep a lot of people who shouldn't keep venomous snakes from having them. Hopefully these laws will be easy for many careful and respectable keepers to be allowed to house venomous species and keep idiots from being able to buy venomous species like puff adders and such without knowing what they are getting into. If these laws were enforced correctly I wouldn't see a big problem with them. Regulating herp species in general is a decent idea if it was done properly. Keepers who are worthy and have the appropriate housing shouldn't be hassled or have a problem with getting permits. And those that don't know what they are doing and can't take care of them should not be allowed to own reptiles and amphibians at all. Though I doubt it will be done properly and I am sure that most of these laws will end up being a large burden to all those that do keep venomous species, good keepers or not. Robert

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by ALA_herp31 on December 12, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
The big problem here is that if they keep passing these (so called good) reptile laws, they mite not stop till they have complitly eradacated all keeping rights, then what will we do? I am coming to the point of beleving they could care less about our freedom as keepers. I know I sound like a pesumist, but I have seen other freedoms go away like they was never thare. This herper for one very much agrees that some ppl should not be keeping Hots, but if we continue at the rate we are going, by alowing the goverment to rule our lives we will end up with all our keeping rights gone before we know it. Lets try and fight these very intrusive regulations and keep these vote hungry polutitions from geting their way........Happy herping Wally

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by TCH_Zoological on December 12, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
All I can say is thank goodness they didn't ban venomous completely up there. I would have to say that I am personally in favor of regulations such as those listed above. And I must say that I am impressed with that state's consideration for the venomous keepers. It seems much more likely, in today's society, for governments to ban venomous completely. As it is much more common for "common folk" to kill a snake rather than relocate the animal. Therefore, I am in favor of regulations that restrict legal keeping to those who are intelligent enough and determined enough to carry out all of the requirements or such regulations. I must say that keepers who are too lazy to put locks on their cages or even label their reptiles are simply not qualified or competent enough to keep venomous reptiles. Most of those regulations listed above did not strike me as harmful to our hobby. In fact it enhances the intellect and presige. People who buy hots without knowing anything about the animal or those who do not have any true investment in the hobby should not be allowed to legally persue such a hobby. Everytime I read or hear about a venomous snake escape, such as those cobras down in Dallas, I grab my camera and take pictures of my snakes so I can remember them when the government takes them away because "billy-bob" wanted to impress his buddies. Regulations are good if they allow you to keep your animals with just a few simple and LOGICAL rules. Regulations such as those in Florida or North Dakota are helping to keep the "stupids" out of our hobby (at least legally). Don't get me wrong I wish that "the land of the free" meant more than it does. But when an 18 year old high school drop-out can go to a hot show and buy a naja or bitis without anymore than an ID, there are serious problems. Self regulation would be the most logical solution. It would possibly keep the "stupids" from getting the "good guys" in trouble. Besides "to regulate" does not mean "to ban" and if quality regulations are written into law(or privately upheld) I personally believe that the government would be less likely to ban venomous later on. I am glad to see permissive regulations being written rather than an out-right ban. It actually makes me feel safe that my collection is not in danger. I would like to see SEVERE fines (tens or thousands AND massive jail time for those "stupids" out there). They are the ones screwing up this hobby not me. Sorry for the long post. T.C. www.midgetfadeds.com

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by Snakeman1982 on December 12, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
I completely agree with TC. I don't want to see a ban on venomous species but a regulation seems necessary. I think this would actually be beneficial to herpers that keep hots. This is because whenever someone got bit, it would be more likely to have been by someone who was irresponsible and couldn't get a permit. Because the responsible keepers would get permits and use skill and caution to keep themselves safe. So the government would easily be able to tell that the responsible keepers aren't getting tagged, its the morons who don't know what they are doing who usually get bit (though not all the time). Right now everyone is in the same boiling pot and if someone got bit by their venomous snake they immediately associate that mistake with all keepers. But if there were a seperation of skilled keepers and idiots who don't know what they are doing, then they could easily distinguish between good and bad keepers. They wouldn't immediately assume that all keepers get bit and are careless. They would realize that it is a smaller majority who don't know what they are doing that is making the mistakes. Robert

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by Phobos on December 13, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
Hi all: I all feel the need of some regulation including safety & care standards. We as a community have failed to set and live by any of the "ideals" posted by Terry now being considered by ND. If WE can't come up with a solution to the many recent bites issues, the state and local communities will. This is one of the hopes of North Eastern Antivenom Bank: To eliminate the "stick" that the AZA community beats(rightly so)us with on a regular basis. Although, this does not address all of our problems as a group it's a damn good start. I find it very strange & sad that only a handful of venomous keepers have contacted Matt or I regarding the formation of the "Bank" (info@neavb.org). We are like the Roman prefect "Nero", We are "fiddling" around while Rome is burning. Al Coritz coritz@neavb.org

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by stopgetinpopped on December 13, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
Those regs in ND are not just being considered they have already been implemented. These regs came about because of one moronic dealer sending an angusticeps a Death Adder and a Monocled Cobra to an individual (who later blew his arm off with a pipe bomb)who had never owned a single snake in his life. Animals were confiscated laws, were put in place. I was asked to give my perspective to the situation. My feeling is that regulations must be enacted. An enforced permit system is needed. This permit must be easy enough to get and the penalties large enough to discourage the illegal keeping. If you look at that law as it is written, a 5,000 dollar penalty per enfraction. That translates to example of 5 Monocled Cobras without the permit, means a 25,000 fine! Now all those fines could be avoided by having a reliable source of serum and proper knowledge and protocol. This means the 500.00 invested in most antivenoms and the 2-3 months worth of work saves you 25,000 dollars and guess what you get to keep venomous snakes. Wow! Basically, it is easy enough to do and the penalties are harsh enough that all but a select few idiots will 1) get the permit as it reads; or 2) not keep venomous snakes. Believe me that their are a large number of other states looking at these regulations... Those of you that live in the N.E. need to contact the individuals trying to start that serum bank and begin doing something for yourselves. Because, times are-a-changin.....fast!

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by ALA_herp31 on December 13, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
I realy do not want to sound like a ass, but it seems to me that the freehanding comunity and I am not refering to the venom trade such as extraction for medical use, I know that those working in the medical field relay on extraction by hand to do their reaserch. What I am talking about is the herp comunity that persist on freehanding venomous reptiles like they are Corn Snakes, this commonly known group of herpers are partly at foult for the adition of more and more regulations. I know that thare are other resons, but I would hope that those in our comunity that belive in freehanding would think long and hard about puting our hobby in jeperty, the incresed danger involved in freehanding is a large part of the lose of keepers freedom.......Just a word of thought from a felow herper, that has seen the regulations of hes home state go to the dogs.......Be safe ya'll, happy herping Wally

RE: thought I would share some new regulations...	Reply
by Joy on December 13, 2004	Mail this to a friend!
Those are actually some reasonable regulations. While I don’t keep hots, I do keep pythons and colubrids. And I would not mind at all some regulations on reptile keeping. I would gladly comply with any reasonable requirements. I have enough invested in my animals and equipment to pay for permits. I would also happily volunteer time to insure that other responsible owners were permitted and irresponsible owners were weeded out. The ONLY problems I see with the regulations have to do with antivenom. Do any hospitals actually stock exotic antivenom? CroFab, yes but exotics are not FDA approved. From what I understand, a responsible keeper would almost HAVE to have someone available to administer antivenom AGAINST Dr’s orders. That’s not really covered there, is it? That should be worked out with the reptile keeping community.

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