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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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by TCH_Zoological on December 14, 2004
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I would like to say from a ex-zookeepers view that it slightly annoying that we had to give up our AV. I remember receiving a call at 4am!!!! and I had to work the next day at 7am. The call was from one of the local hospitals asking for CroFab (yes CroFab!) they had called every other hospital in town and everyone else on the zoo's ememergency contact list (although I think they just picked me, why? I don't know). So I was the lucky person to drive to the zoo and get the AV for someone who got bit by a pet rattlesnake at 4 in the freaking morning. Needless to say that particular day I was not in favor of anyone keeping hots. However, that was the only day I ever had such an opinion.
On a different note, I have an idea for self regulation that goes hand in hand with a regional AV bank. A hot keepers group or society (not like the SHHS). The KEY DIFFERENCE with my idea is that membership to this society is more than a simple name sheet and $15 dollar fee (nothing against this the SHHS, I think its GREAT).
If every hot dealer/breeder/hobbyist who was respectable was a member of this "future" society only sold animals to card carrying members of the "future" society things might be different. The rules and requirements involved in becoming a member would be very similar to those that North Dakota just applied.
1) Every animal will be registered with the society (including new births and deaths).
2) Every keeper who applies must take a simple written test given once or twice a year at regional hubs. The test will ensure that the members of this society are competent in general venomous herpetoculture. There will be common sense (at least I think so) questions that sould merit logical answers. If a person does not pass then they will have to retake the test later on if they are to become a member.
3) Every member shall follow certain caging requirements (similar to ND's). An initial inspection by a regional coodinator/inspector would be required after the applicant passes the entrance exam. This would insure that atleast the members are starting off with good secure caging and have decent knowledge about keeping hots.
4) All members would NOT be allowed to stay members if they posted any photographs of them freehandling or not safely managing their animals. If they do so, they would be expelled from the society. This would atleast insure that members do not portray themselves or the society in a reckless manner. And would also set an example for aspiring keepers.
5) Members can only sell/trade/buy or give away venomous animals to other card carrying members. If all the dealer/breeders/hobbyists were members then they would be resricted to sell only to those would would be somewhat competent. Because, if it stays the way it is now, dealers selling to anyone who has an ID, they are actually contributing to the demise of their own consumer market. If they sell to more and more stupid or incompetent people eventually with enough mishaps, the state were those people live might enact a ban on venomous. Then those dealers not only lost that individual customer but the lost an entire state's business legally.
If we act now and group together we can raise the bar. It's like someone said, "were all in the same pot." Well, if the good responsible keepers ban together and keep the hobby within the circle then there might be a potential to distinguish between the good, the bad and the ugly. This is just my two cents. I have had this plan thought out for a long time and I didn't give all the details so bash it all you want but I probably have the answers any criticisms. So please email me if you would like to ask me any questions.
Thanks,
T.C.
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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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by Phobos on December 14, 2004
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TC:
Very good points. I have been having discussions with Thomas Eimermacher about setting up "standards of care & conduct guide lines" for the SHHS community. They would be voluntary of course but future State regulation may change that to manditory. It's one of AZA's bigest gripes (again rightly so) next to having to give up A/V. My first task thogh, is the A/V bank launch with Matt Harris, then I'll turn my attention to this issue.
Al,
info@neavb.org
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For Chance......
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by MattHarris on December 14, 2004
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From Discussions with a zoo in PA, the A/V bank, may be the saving grace that stops an outright ban in PA. Fortunately, the zoo that offered us guidance, is not against private individuals keeping hots. They do want to see every keeper having his own A/V or access to a bank. When the bank is up and running, my impression is that, membership in it, very well may be a stipulation of receiving a license. This too me, would be easier to comply with, than even having to provide paperwork showing you have your own IND, A/V, etc.
A/V simply wasn't an issue in NY though. We simply have a bunch of liberals driven by PETA, and ASPCA dollars who wanted an outright ban. Of course, they also want to develop every inch of habitat to throwh up more strip malls. There is also a bill introduced here making it ILLEGAL for an EnCon officer to shoot a stray cat, because the PETA folks, think they shouldn't be considered wildlife!! I'm sorry, but any stray cat, to me is NOT a housepet if its out hunting rabbits, squirrels and birds!
Matt
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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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by KINGRIUS on December 14, 2004
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I see the points everyone has made. An adjustment in my reasoning is necessary. I guess my thinking was a bit small minded. I suppose some regulation is in order for the venomous keepers, but not banning. When I first heard of the NEAV bank it sounded like a great idea, I am in full support of it's creation.
Darius
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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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by Chance on December 14, 2004
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Matt, I'm glad in your area the AV bank you guys are setting up is helping to keep venomous keeping legal. I very much do hope I am wrong about my assessment and inference. Even though I no longer keep venomous snakes, I still very much support the right of any competent individual to keep them and will always fight legislation here and elsewhere when I can. After all, you know how it goes. Oftentimes, when the legislators take aim at a particular group of reptiles, the insuing leglislation is all-encompassing for every "dangerous" reptile out there. The newly hatched NY law is the perfect example. I keep retics, and they can just as easily be banned as venomous snakes can. Unfortunately for me, I can't establish a regional "anti-constriction" bank...lol...so I'm just up a creek when they start looking at big boids.
-Chance
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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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by ALA_herp31 on December 14, 2004
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Chance, is see the point. Its seems like a never ending regulatory game, they seem to want to keep going insted of trying to compromies. I also wonder at times if the regulations will ever come to a compromies. Lets all hope we can get this game stoped before its to late, I think the A/V bank could be the ticket to stoping most of it, but we have one other job and that is to educate the public about the reasons we keep. Education could very well stop the tide of contempt that plagues our hobby......Happy herping Wally
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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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Anonymous post on December 14, 2004
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There is no need to compromise from a legislative perspective. Rules and laws are initiated to control or regulate society and venomous herpetoculture is spinning out of control. Society warrants protection and this hobby is clearly in need of supervision if it is not to be done away with. As venomous herpetoculture grows bites will inevitably become more common. Accidents happen. There will also always be those who who don't conform to our codes negatively affecting our community. They are a liability. Sadly, they will always be there. This can only be accepted. My brother, we are the ones who must compromise so that legislators don't negative affect our interests. We must stand up and show them that we are responsible hobbyists who pose no threat to others, huu?
Can I get an, "Amen"?
-The Phantom
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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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by stopgetinpopped on December 14, 2004
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Just look at Falconry. Very well regulated and it weeds out the ones that just want to do it for the coolness factor.
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RE: thought I would share some new regulations...
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by MattHarris on December 15, 2004
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I agree...Every time I go to Hamburg, I see that there needs to be some more regulation than there is. It really isn't from the "protection of the public" point of view, but more from seeing irresponsible young keepers with a lack of respect for the animals they are buying. They view them more as 'Daboia's in a deli cup', rather than intricate parts of a complex ecosystem.
I also hear more stories of collectors poaching protected animals. Only when these low-lifes realize that the animals are of more value in the wild, than in someones Vision cage, will this stop. That's just an indication of the low moral standards some dealers have, they're so deparate for a dollar, that they have no regard for the need for conservation. Then again, if you start asking them questions about habitat, specific requirements, etc....all you get is a blank stare!
Matt
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