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RE: roundup
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by Amabilis on March 23, 2005
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I have been against the roundups from day one. I have lectured to all and sundry (especially when arguing about collection, illegal practices, and just about any stupid argument there has been). Have you ever been to a roundup? If you had you would never say that collectors can do as much damage as these yahoos. While I not only respect your passion I also have to say that you've been sitting on your hands. I have been protesting the local roundup (no, there ARE still lots of small roundups that the Sweetwater collects a large amount of their rattlers from) for years and constantly on these people and their sponsors (Copenhagen, Anheiser Busch, etc.) No one cares or wants to hear about it. Peta won't even reply to snail or e mail. Famous snake owners (Slash, Alice Cooper) or famous animal rights people just don't care. You said " There have been several roundup posts on this site and only me and one other person is the only one speaking on the roundup guestbook." I've been after the roundup jerks for YEARS not days. The gassing, the slaughter, the pure horror cannot be described and CANNOT compare to collection, even for the pet trade. While I do not collect any more, I can't see even when I collected everything that I could do the damage that they do. Wait until you see a roundup to form a final opinion. I think that we should be mad at all the people who let it happen, at least as mad at them as the roundup. Ignorance is no excuse....just ask the buffalo. These guys cross the country (Ca.,Az.,NM,TX,LA,MS,FLA)collecting rattlers without ANY restraint. Even if a thousand of us went out and collected kings, do you think we could come close to the numbers they do? They collect and gas throughout the year. Dens with hundreds of snakes.....dead.
What do we do? You can write their guestbook as much as you want and only give them something to laugh about while they slam beer and eat snakes. We need to educate, lecture, protest, write to your senator, call upon the state to impose legislature. Florida and Arizona have the most reptile laws and THAT should be our future.
I REALLY love to see someone as passionate as myself and others and hopefully we can ALL stop and think about this horror and come up with a solution. But, lecturing those on this site won't do it (including myself). Being as passionate as we are about our animals we should be able to at least stop the roundup if nothing else.
David Furphy
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RE: roundup
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by JHarrison on March 23, 2005
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In the past some venom labs would get animals from the round ups. We do not and never have recieved animals from round ups. We have spoken out against them in lectures and on TV. They will end when the general public stops attending them or all the snakes are gone. Education of the public is the best way to end the round ups. Those people that run the round ups could careless what we have to say but if it stops making money they will listen.
Continue to speak out but remember that there are many people who are working to get these round ups stopped.
Jim Harrison
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RE: roundup
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by Rmitchell on March 24, 2005
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OK i think i've got something that will do some more damage. What if we find the sponsors & refuse to use their products & services? Try to take the money out of the roudup. Just wondering everyone elses thoughts on this?
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RE: roundup
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by PIGMAN on March 24, 2005
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Make crotalus adamanteus a game specie and manage snake populations through habitat modification and prey inhansment in suitable areas. Then set bag limits. Protect declining populations elsewhere. Then we will have enough snakes for roundups, venom production, and for collectors. This would be good for the snake populations, other animals and preditors, It sparks interest and enjoyment in the outdoors so more people would want to conserve more habitat.
Kinda like fishing or turkey & deer hunting. Even roundups are insignifigant to what roads and habitat loss takes on herp populations.
Zach Orr
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RE: roundup
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by AquaHerp on March 24, 2005
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Money supporting theses roundups comes in many different forms. Even protesters to these roundups sometimes unwittingly throw in. They drive in and protest these events, and while there have some lunch, dinner, buy gas, cigarettes, soda, maybe lodging, and then drive out thinking their "protest" has done something. Maybe so. But one thing it has done is to strengthen these roundups once again by generating overall capital for the town holding them who can then boast that they made $X.XX amount this year thanks to the roundup, and in part, the protesters too. And that's what keeps these things alive, money.
Personally, I feel that we as a society are outgrowing these roundups. Thanks in a big part to the education of our younger generation through television and the herptoculture world in general. We now have a generation that does not buy in to the "all rattlesnakes are evil" BS and simply won't put up with the mass slaughter of animals for no just reason other than brutal yucks and yee haws. As I said before, I don't look for it to go away next year, but I certainly don't foresee it being around 10 years from now. Our society and sweeping stricter wildlife laws in general simply won't tolerate it much longer. Yup, even for rattlesnakes.
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RE: roundup
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by bush_viper17 on March 24, 2005
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Rattlesnake roundups date back to 1680. Men were employed at two shillings a day to kill rattlesnakes in Massachussetts. This method of extermination developed until, by 1740,a day was set aside each year for a general snake hunt. Men would gather at rattlesnake dens and kill as many snakes as possible. These early roundups were carried out with the purpose of eliminating rattlesnakes in areas where settlers were attempting to make their land safe for themselves,their children and their livestock.
As communities grew, the hunts became more and more competitive. Prizes were awarded to the hunter who killed the most snakes.
One hunt in Iowa in 1849 describes how two men killed 90 rattlesnakes each in one hour and a half. The total killed that year was 3750.
The roundups turned into popular sports, even in areas where rattlesnakes presented little or no danger to human life or livestock. The hunt turned into a big spectacle. People would bring picnics and casually attend the events.
Civic authorities and charities often sponsered the events to raise money and to provide entertainment.
The crowd could witness exhibitions of rattlesnakes being handled,afterwards the snakes were killed and the skins,meat,head, etc were sold.
Rattlesnake roundups are still being carried out in several states, the most famous is the Sweetwater,Texas roundup where 70,773 were reported to have been killed over a 16-year period.
751 timber rattlesnakes killed over a 9 year period at the Morris Snakehunt,Pennsylvania.
3,205 in 17 years at the Keystone Reptile Club,in Pennsylvania. Rattlesnake roundups still take place in Alabama,Georgia,Florida,Texas,and Oklahoma.
In the early years, rattlesnake roundups coincided with the most productive time of year,just after they had come out of hibernation but before they spread out. Later,dynamiting the dens took place. Currently,the common method is to pour gasonine into the dens and gopher tortoise burrows. The gasoline drives out the snakes. THis is hideous because the rattlesnakes often stay in the burrows and die,along with a wide variety of wildlife that share the same hideout.
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RE: roundup
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by Buzztail1 on March 24, 2005
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Five years ago Fitzgerald, Georgia gave in to GA DNR's suggestions to change their Rattlesnake Roundup to some other type of festival. March 19 th was the 5th Annual Fitzgerald Wild Chicken Festival in celebration of the wild descendants of the Burmese Jungle Fowl that are quite common in the town.
When they switched over to the festival from the roundup, they asked DNR representatives to please make sure that some of the herp enthusiasts who had given them so much grief over the years concerning their roundup would come and display snakes since they are such a good crowd draw.
It has been an uphill battle ever since and at a couple of the festivals, I have personally heard people grumbling over how few people come and how little money is brought in since they don't have the rattlesnakes any more. Very few of those self righteous herpers are ever willing to give up the one day it would take to go and display snakes for the interested crowd. The first time I was asked, it was difficult. I had to cancel plans to attend a Navy Ball and find snakes to display (just the ones I didn't already have - but I already wrote that story) and drive the two hours to Fitzgerald. There was no-one there to represent the SHHS other than The Boss and I. One other member showed up in a different capacity but the promoter was very glad to have us. Last year I was stationed in Washington state and unable to make it. This year The Boss and I met up there with Chad Minter and Brian W. Smith. The SHHS was well represented and we certainly drew a crowd.
My point in all of this is that it is very easy to sit in our homes at our keyboards and complain about what other people are doing to the environment, etc. All too often when people are willing to try to change things, we don't support them and the others, who certainly watch, ask themselves "Why should we change? They did and now look, they are losing money." It is not just about stopping the roundups. It is also about helping the towns to find another way to make the money that the roundups brought in.
This year, the promoter of the Wild Chicken Festival told us that they are now making more money than they were as a roundup town. I hope it stays that way. Once I get back to GA on a more permanent basis, I plan to make their festival an annual display on my agenda. Just one more way to educate the public and support the stopping of roundups.
Everyone needs to ask themselves: "What am I doing to stop roundups?" Not "What is everyone else doing to stop roundups?"
Karl
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by bush_viper17 on March 24, 2005
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I agree Karl. When is the next Wild Chicken Festival? I'll be there with bells on and bring any snake that needs to be brought. I also agree that I am doing nothing right now except for typing on the computer and complaining. Thats because I dont have the tools right now. I dont have a vehicle. Im not in the position right now to talk to authorities and get anything done......But Im going to dedicate my life and everything to help. If I know that I can help, ie.the wild chicken festival, though, I will walk there if I have to to support. Can you give me some more information on the Fitzgerald Wild Chicken Festival(where does it take place,when does it take place,what snakes can I bring,whats the history of it?) Thanks Karl.
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RE: roundup
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by Rmitchell on March 24, 2005
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Jeremy can you still get on the rattlesnake roundups site? Eveytime i try i get this message.
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /home.html on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
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Apache/1.3.33 Server at www.rattlesnakeroundup.com Port 80
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RE: roundup
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by bush_viper17 on March 25, 2005
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Yeah, I can still get on. Here's what the webmaster wrote:Sorry guys, this is a guestbook NOT a discussion forum. If you have any negative or general remarks please email the Jaycees using the form found on the contact us page. Otherwise, your wasting your time and I'll just keep doing my job..better yet, I'll have a job forever.
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