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1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by challenger on April 12, 2005
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I took a mountain bike down a real long dirt road the state owns yesterday. I was riding for about an hour and saw nothing. Then I saw what looked like a stick from far away. After I aproached it I could see it was a snake so I stopped. It tried to wander off but I blocked it-w-my bike tire and it just layed there semi coiled up but not looking aggresive. I just stared at it for a while and I a great inclination to believe it was a Cottommouth. It was about 20" long and about as big aroung a quarter at it's biggest part. Would this be a year old snake or more? I had to get it off the road before it became another "if it's long and skinny run it over croud". Since my coperhead bite I was not going to go near it so I got a stick and tried to move the body. It showed it's pure white mouth at the stick so I backed off and just tapped it's tail and it left into the woods. It was really nice looking and interesting. I can tell you when it opened it's mouth, as small as it was, it looked like it could swallow a chicken egg. What I can't understand is how the body is so small right behind the head and then gets stocky. Other than the tail the "neck" is the smallest part. Can I get a recommendation on what I need to observe hots safely? Would it be correct to say the smaller snakes are harder to tail (not that I would). When they grow large can they go all the way back on themselves if the tail is held in the air? I just want to take some pics and safely observe these things before I leave them on the way.
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by SwampY on April 12, 2005
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first, don't try to handle it if you haven't been trained in person by a real live handler who does know what they are doing. (there are things about handling snakes that you just can't teach in a few paragraphs and what may look like 'just picking it up by the tail' is actually a series of complex maneuvers based on knowledge of snake anatomy and biomechanics.)
Second, take all the pics you want. Keep in mind the possibility of tripping and falling within strike range.(that happened to me) I've also seen snakes strike well over their own body length (yes it CAN happen)
You probably saw a cottonmouth, but here's an excellent photo showing how similar watersnakes and cottonmouths can look. I've often caught them only to realize I was fooled by a muddy fat frogeating watersnake! lol.
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/showfilepage/3053?offset=126
Be careful, also, if you are in the southeast a copy of my book might be a wise investment. There's some great cottonmouth info in there :-) email me and I can get you a signed copy.
Chad Minter
Author
Venomous Snakes of the Southeast
http://www.envenomated.com
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by challenger on April 12, 2005
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I also recently caught a banded water snake and was sure it was a cottonmouth. It was the most aggresive snake I've ever seen. It would strike w/o stopping. I had my suspitions because it didn't have a very viper style head and it had a grey belly. After consulting-w-a local herp expert it turned out to be a little water snake and I just let it go (again-it was in the road). This time I am almost sure this was a cottonmouth due to it's white mouth interior and the head had what I would consider plates as oppssed to scales and was a viper like head.
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by earthguy on April 12, 2005
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In my experience watersnakes (the Nerodia) tend to be way more aggressive than cottonmouths. I tailed an eastern cottonmouth yesterday and sat with him for about 25 min, just observing him. Last week I caught a banded watersnake that did a darn good hot impression, but I think that he would have taken my hand off if I'd let him. When observing any hot in the wild just remember to keep a respectful distance. In most cases they want nothing to do with you. They're more interested in finding a meal, a mate, or whatever else makes a hot herp happy. As far as the age of the snake, it was probably over a year old, but it's impossible to be certain b/c size depends on available diet. For an interesting article on Sexual dimorphism and diet in cottons see Vincent and Herrel, Journ. Zool. 264:53-59
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by LarryDFishel on April 12, 2005
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Yes, tailing small snakes is very dangerous, they can come back faster than you can react. Yes, most larger snakes can come back up to thier tail, it just takes a hair longer, but there's no reason to be doing either. If you must move them, get yourself a proper hook (or two), and a fairly long one at that.
On a legal note, if you meant that the road ran through state property, in most places that means it's illegal for you to even touch the snake with a hook (or a stick or your tire, or in some places to even have a hook in your possession), so make sure you know what the local situation is before you mess with them...
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by challenger on April 12, 2005
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Yeah - I met the wildlife officer the day before and gave me the rules. He just said no living thing can be removed from the park. It turns out he lives in the same subdivision we are moving to.
As for a hook mine is embarrasingly long like 5.5'. I made it from a garden tool and heated/bent some steel. I wanted something I could do some excavating with as well as keep a snake at a considerable distance. I am thinking of making a shorter one for my bike expeditions through the park. They are hunting turkey in the park now three days a week. They can take their bag of turkey but a tadpole would get you fined big time??? Can't fight city hall.
I have heard a lot of people say the water snake is a mean bugger. Funny thing is once I was 100% sure it was a water snake I picked it up and it was like a corn. Totally relaxed and just let me hold on till we got back to the pond near where I found him.
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by AquaHerp on April 12, 2005
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You should invest in a good field guide if you are unsure of the snake IDs in your area.
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by elapidking81 on April 12, 2005
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I agree the peterson field guide to reptiles and amphibians, of eastern /central north america is my favorite but if you want alot of pictures the national audubon society field guide to reptiles and amphibians is a good starter also I recomend getting both I have them both and still use them alot even though I know most the herps in this area I still like to compare pics.
shane
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RE: 1st Cottonmouth-expert opinions please
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by AquaHerp on April 13, 2005
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I have always liked the Audubon myself, they seem to hold up a little better. I always packed it in a ziplock just for extra care when I was younger. As well, most states have books available through the local DNR that are targeted towards that area’s reptile (or sometimes just snakes) only. That can take a lot of the guess work out of it as far as ranges go. These are priceless gems to have if you're just learning the herps of your region.
I'll go you one even better....grab Audubon's other ones too as you can and bone up on the birds, insects, mammals, plants and so on. Next time you go herping, even if you don't see any reptiles, you'll still have a good time. You'll never come home thinking it was a total bust. Hey porcupines and walking sticks are cool too!!! Even if they're not a herp they still lead interesting little lives.
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