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Here's one for the venom guru's
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by wls967 on July 18, 2002
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I volunteer for my local police dept. and two others in nearby counties to handle reptile calls. About 5 weeks ago, I got a call from a lady about a snake she had seen in her yard. It is a very clean cut area, but she has a lot of cattail in the back, and the side and front "ditch" is very clean (they keep it weeded). Her husband and neighbor were weeding one day, in the water, and he suddenly had pain in his leg. He was wearing knee high boots and when he looked, he had one little drop of blood where he felt the "tingle". He went to the hospital, they did an EKG, found a slightly irregular heart beat, administered antibiotics, then gave him morphine for the "Pain" in his "legs", not leg. The doctor told him he was "mildly" envenomated by his "Snakebite". I talked with him two days later he had NO swelling, NO Necrosis and NO further symptoms. I'm just an educated idiot, but doesn't this sound like he had a Black Widow in his boot, rather than a cottonmouth attacking a man with a weedeater. All input appreciated, however, take sarcasm somewhere else. I'm only interested in facts.
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RE: Here's one for the venom guru's
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by Charper on July 18, 2002
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The information is inconclusive. Depending upon his age, he may have normally had an irregular heartbeat. I see it all the time. Secondly, neither the cottonmouth, nor the Black widow have any cardiotoxins that directly affect the heart. Black widow venom causes skeletal muscles to contract, causing cramping pains. It also causes blood vessels to constrict which leads to high blood pressure.
Just from the information you provided, I would guess that he got poked by a stick and normally had an irregular heartbeat.
Chris Harper
webmaster@venomousreptiles.org
PS - I also teach classes on animal toxicology for EMS.
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RE: Here's one for the venom guru's
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by wls967 on July 18, 2002
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OK, looking back, I guess that was a little vague. My focus wasn't meant to be on the heart rate, it was meant to be on the pain in his legs. To be more specific, his wife said he was to the point of wanting to scream with leg cramps/pains. Fear from any source can affect heart rate, I agree with that but pain that severe when he claims he never felt anything bite him, he just started having symptoms....he didn't seem the weak, fragile type. And, pain/cramps in both legs just sounded suspicious to me. I definitely don't think it was a snake bite, even though his doctor did.
What I was trying to get across/ask for opinions was, that much pain with no swelling, necrosis just doesn't sound right for a snake bite.
wls
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RE: Here's one for the venom guru's
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by Charper on July 19, 2002
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The post-event symptoms you describe do sound more like Latrodectism than any kind of snake envenomation. There are some problems though. Black widow bites are initially painless. The pain doesn't kick in until 30 minutes or so after the bite. And they don't leave a drop of blood on the skin. And you also said that he was in the water. The widow might have been in cat-tails near the ground, but certainly not in the water.
To me it SOUNDS more like a European hornet or something like that. He would have been in screaming pain and he could have been stung while standing in water.
You never mentioned where you live. That might help narrow it down a bit more.
CH
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by J-Snakes on July 19, 2002
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I think that his bite was caused by neither a cottonmouth nor a black widow. First of all, if it was just single tiny hole which only a little bit of blood came out, it was not a cottonmouth. A cottonmouth, like any other viper related snake, has larger retractable fangs and if bitten the man would have had to be given antivenin since the normal yield for the bite of this snake 100-150mmg of venom, the lethal dose being the same amount as its yield. It wasn't a black widow either do to the fact that this spider's bite is so small that there should be no bleeding, only inflammation around the bite is visible. Plus this creature's venom affects the nervous system and would have made the man go into respiratory arrest. If anything I think this man was bit by a large deer or horse fly and didn't know, working himself into a panic. This could explain his mildly irregular heartbeat. If bitten by the snake or the spider both would require some antivenin. And for the pain in his legs, I personally think the guy was looking for a fix from the doctor. Morphine is an extremely strong drug for just pain in the man's legs. If anything the doctor should have just prescribed vicaden or codin, not morphine.
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by wls967 on July 20, 2002
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I live in Millbrook Al. Near Montgomery. The reason I thought of black widow
was because of the knee high rubber boots that he stores in a dusty shed out back.
wls
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by fizzbob7 on July 21, 2002
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anyone wanting to get their "fix" of pain killers is gonna be more creative than claiming snake bite...that situation calls for some good 'ol back pain....what about one of the "cow killers"...i have seen them near water in weeds and bushes strong enough to support them around ponds and marshes and i was bitten a while back by something that caused an arthritic feeling with some numbing at first and sure hurt like hell....but it mostly felt arthritic for a week or so...i was bitten in the shoulder blade and it hurt all the way down my arm to the fingertips...someone said it sounded like a cow killer, possibly ....
by what i told them
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