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Crotalus Cerastes
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by JorgeRemigio on February 17, 2007
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Keeping a Crotalus Cerastes Would it be a very stupid idea in a Country where antivenom does not exist?
Thank you very much
Best Regards
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by Cro on February 17, 2007
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Jorge, because of its small size and the small ammount of venom injected in a bite, the Desert Sidewinder (Crotalus cerastes) is far less dangerous than many of the larger rattlesnakes.
I would be far more concerned if you were wishing to keep a larger snake like a Western Diamond-Backed Rattlesnake without having antivenom available.
I would think that somewhere in Portugal, there must be some Antivenom available, possibly from Zoos that keep venomous snakes? Or, perhaps in Spain? They should stock the "Bioclon Tri Antivipmyn" which is made in Mexico, and works against Crotalus bites. Or, perhaps the American made CroFab, which would work less well.
If you use good / safe reptile husbandry, and always work with the snake using hooks, a Sidewinder would probably be one of the safest venomous snakes for you to keep in a Country where antivenom is not readilly available.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by Cro on February 17, 2007
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Jorge, both of the below listed Zoos have Reptile Houses. They probably stock antivenom what would be made available in a snake bite emergency.
You might want to contact them and ask what antivenoms they stock.
Lisbon Zoo (Jardim Zoologico de Lisboa)
Zoo Aquarium de Madrid
Hope this helps.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by JorgeRemigio on February 17, 2007
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Dear Mr JohnZ,
First of all...thank so much for your very fast and kind answer!
To tell you the truth...I had some “hope” that you would tell me that keeping a Sidewinder without antivenom would be extremely stupid...but since you did not...I am giving one more step in the direction of one of my childhood dreams...keeping a Sidewinder!!!
I have no experience with venomous reptiles…since there is no available antivenom in local hospitals…I never moved on to keeping a Sidewinder (I can not afford to lose a finger…or even just its use…I have a couple of sons to take care…well I guess nobody can…but when we really love something we can afford to take some risks…so I believe that the love for my sons is bigger that the will to keep a Sidewinder).
Next Monday I will contact our National Zoo and some Reptile Shops in Spain maybe they will have antivenom.
Do you think that such antivenom would prevent, in case of bite, injuries such the ones on the Photo Album or VenomousReptiles.org (lose of limbs, extreme injury etc)? I admit such thing scares me very much. In case of bite applying the antivenom would be enough or would I have to go to the hospital?
Of course I will try to use safe reptile husbandry, but I’d rather prevent…we can not predict accidents…I always have to plan my things before I move to something…specially when moving to something so serious.
Please apologize for such basic questions and observations, but this really is the first step…if I move to the next, it will be in a near future (6 months -1 year)…only when I really “know” what I am doing.
Once again thank you so much
Regards
Jorge
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by Cro on February 17, 2007
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Jorge, because you have no experience working with venomous snakes, it is very important for you to have someone mentor you, and show you how to safely work with the Sidewinder. The reptile shops you mentioned probably have several venomous keepers who would be willing to help you.
When you contact your Zoo, do not be surprised it they try to discourage you from keeping a venomous snake. Zoos are often called on to supply antivenom when individuals are bitten, and they do not like using their antivenom supplys, as they are keeping them incase one of their workers is bitten.
There is also the possibility that you could purchase your own supply of antivenom. This would have to be with the help of your Doctor, and would require import permits. The Bioclon Tri Antivipmyn would be the best one to try to obtain. The Zoo or Reptile shop might be able to advise you of the possibility of this.
As far as the anitvenom, it has to be administered at a hospital, under the suprevision of a doctor. This is because there is always the possibility of anaphylactic shock and other reactions to the venom or the antivenom.
The sooner that antivenom is started, the quicker it will stop the action of the venom. Usually, the venom will have caused some damage before the antivenom arrives. The bite of a Sidewinder would cause a lot of pain and swelling, and some localized tissue damage. If you look at the photos of Copperhead bites, it would probably be simialr to the damage they caused.
I think it is important that if you have dreamed of having a Sidewinder since you were a child, that you should keep one of these fascinating animals. People should follow their dreams!
Be sure to search the experts section here on their care. There have been many good items written here on their care needs. Be sure to learn proper and safe handling techniques from a Mentor. And be sure that you can provide caging that is absolutly safe and secure, and hopefully a locked room that will not allow your young sons access to the cage.
Please let us know here of your progress, and if you have further questions as to the husbandry and keeping of Sidewinders.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by JorgeRemigio on February 17, 2007
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Fortunately I do have a Mentor, he has experience with venomous snakes but not with Sidewinders and he was the one that advised me VenomousReptiles.org for my research.
About the antivenom, I’ve just spoken to my “mentor” (who I help sometimes to catch some members of the crocodilian family and big boids that are human aggressive), and he ensured me that if I give him the correct name and brand of the antivenom it will be possible to get, so it will be “Bioclon Tri Antivipmyn”.
I wish to buy my own antivenom I live very far from the national zoo…but 10min from a local hospital.
The injuries…serious…not just swelling…a lot of necrosis also…definitely a serious bite! Lose of limbs is a serious issue to consider with such bite…maybe not death…since I am a big and heavy boy.
About proper handling and husbandry…I keep my snakes in a basement, locked and the only key is with me at all times and I use Herptek cages. I will have some opportunities to practice proper handling techniques with Vipera Latastei from a local park under professional supervision, I trust that in 6 months-1 years I will ready to keep my own Sidewinder!!
Once again THANK YOU.
My very best regards
Jorge
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by GREGLONGHURST on February 18, 2007
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"Do you think that such antivenom would prevent, in case of bite, injuries such the ones on the Photo Album or VenomousReptiles.org (lose of limbs, extreme injury etc)? I admit such thing scares me very much. In case of bite applying the antivenom would be enough or would I have to go to the hospital?"
Jorge: Yes, if used promptly & properly, antivenin will prevent limb loss. It is best administered by someone else, & is most effective when administered intravenously. Therefore, going to a hospital is highly recommended.
Before you acquire the little crotalid, get at least two hooks. If your climate is humid, you will also need a dehumidifier for your snake room. The sidewinders are, after all, creatures of the desert, & do not do well in humid conditions.
~~Greg~~
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by tj on February 18, 2007
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"and he ensured me that if I give him the correct name and brand of the antivenom it will be possible to get, so it will be “Bioclon Tri Antivipmyn”"
You lucky dog. We should be so lucky to get that here and get rid of the junk CroFab.
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RE: Crotalus Cerastes
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by Cro on February 18, 2007
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Tom, we are getting closer to being able to have Bioclon available here in the US.
Phase 2 Clinical Trials in Arizona are complete, and they will be starting Phase 3 FDA Clinical Trials on the "Polyvalent Anti-snake Fabotherapicthe" at multiple test locations in the US, starting in June of 2007.
The next thing we need to do is find out what hospitals will be part of those trials in different areas of this country.
http://www.bioclon.com.mx/clinicalR.html#
Best Regards JohnZ
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