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Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't administ
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by tigers9 on December 9, 2007
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I am little confused here, are the protocols different in Canada or would the situation be the same in the USA, even if you are resposnible and keep your own anti venom for the more exotic species, the hospital still might NOT administer it?
Z
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http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=1478fabb-d344-47ac-8deb-7c55aea6e461
Surrey man may lose hand after bite from cobra
Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't administer an anti-venom
Glenda Luymes
The Province
Sunday, December 09, 2007
A Surrey man may lose a finger -- or even a hand -- after being bitten by a poisonous pet cobra for which B.C. hospitals do not carry an anti-venom.
Jason Hansen, 36, was bitten Thursday night by a pet cobra at his home in Surrey.
Dalvin Corrival, a friend of Hansen's, said that the bite was "dry" and the cobra did not release venom, but the neurotoxins in its saliva have damaged the tissue in Hansen's hand.
"He's in danger of losing his hand. His finger is turning black and his arm is four times the normal size. He needs an anti-venom," Corrival said. He told The Province doctors had told him there was a high likelihood of tissue loss.
Corrival said doctors at Surrey Memorial Hospital are not willing to give Hansen an anti-venom, deciding instead to "wait and see."
Corrival also said that on Friday morning a "snake expert" friend of his who has developed an anti-
venom sent a dose by air from northern B.C.
The doctors would not administer it, Corrival said.
"They won't treat him, and his arm is just getting worse and worse," said Corrival, adding that he plans to file a complaint against the
hospital.
Fraser Health spokesman Stephen Harris said it's "up to the doctors to make the best clinical decision."
"A doctor cannot administer a drug without knowing what it is," he added in regards to the anti-
venom provided by Corrival's friend.
If doctors decide to treat a patient with an anti-venom, the dose would have to be shipped from Seattle or Drumheller, Alta., said Debra Kent, supervisor of the B.C. Poison
Control Centre.
B.C. hospitals do not keep specific and expensive anti-venoms for exotic snakes, carrying only
rattlesnake anti-venom for the species native to the Okanagan.
"When private collectors keep snakes . . . whose job is it to supply the anti-venom?" asked Kent. "There is a process [to get anti-
venom in an emergency], but it's not one I'd personally count on if I needed it for a cobra bite."
On hearing of the attack, animal-rights activists called it another example of why exotic pet ownership should be regulated in B.C.
"Why is it that there are no regulations for these animals?" said SPCA spokeswoman Lori Chortyk. "Without regulations, nobody has any idea who owns [them]. The neighbours might not even know there's a poisonous snake next door."
The SPCA is petitioning the provincial government to regulate the ownership of exotic animals by including them in the official definition of wildlife.
The Ministry of Environment is in the process of reviewing the Wildlife Act for the first time in 25 years. Currently, exotic animals are considered domestic and the provincial government has no authority to restrict their sale or ownership.
In changing the definition of wildlife to include exotic animals, the government could then regulate them.
Sara Dubois, manager of wildlife for the SPCA, told The Province last month that "it's a public-safety issue."
Pointing to the tiger-mauling death of a woman in 100 Mile House this spring, Dubois said: "We need to stop the flow of exotic animals . . . We're hoping this is something that will be dealt with in the spring legislature."
If it is, the SPCA will likely stop getting letters like one it recently received from someone asking where they could purchase a pet cheetah.
A quick Google search by The Province found a person in Qualicum Beach selling two exotic cat cubs for $4,000. The online advertisement expired in May.
gluymes@png.canwest.com
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RE: Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't admi
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by Chris_Harper on December 9, 2007
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I can't comment on the medical/legal situation in Canada, but in the US, the way it works is that if the FDA has approved a drug for a specific situation, then that's what you have to use. However, if they haven't approved a drug to treat a specific situation, such as a Bothrops alternatus envenomation, then you are allowed to use an imported drug on an "experimental" basis. You have to fill out the appropriate paperwork for the use of that drug once you have done so, and turn it in. Check the file library of this site for information on acquiring exotic antivenoms.
CH
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RE: Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't admi
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by LarryDFishel on December 9, 2007
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Things in the article seriously do not add up. Shoddy reporting is a distinct possibility, but if not then things might be little more complicated than the hospital simply refusing to use appropriate antivenom.
1) They're getting advice from a friend who says it was a dry bite and yet his hand is black and blue and his arm is badly swollen. I wouldn't take advice from this person either.
2) According to the article a "'snake expert' friend" sent "a dose" of antivenom he DEVELOPED? What!? What!?! Danger Will Robinson! What!?!?!?!
The short version is, either the reporting is horrible or what the doctors are being told by this guy's friends is useless. I don't think we have enough info to tell which yet...
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RE: Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't admi
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by JoeCrotalid on December 10, 2007
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Both Larry and Chris bring up clear points regarding the use of exotic antivenoms being "experimental" since they are not FDA approved however this to the best of my knowledge is valid in the U.S. only since Canadian medicine is not governed by the FDA. In addition, I am concerned by the reporting which may have alterior motives since it jumps to regulatory status of exotic animals, and may exagerate some of the effects of the venom. It also as Larry points out states that a friend claims the bite to be "Dry" but the patient has signs of tissue necrosis which some Cobra envenomations have stronger effects. Does this patient have any neurological signs or symptoms which are potentially more life threatening? Then it claims a friend developed the antivenom vs. a company who develops antivenom. There is not a physician alive who would risk their licensure to administer that medication even in a country of socialized medicine where you can buy tylenol with codeine over the counter without a prescription. I would be very interested to see the actual case file including photos of the patient's arm/bite as well as know the species before making any judgement on the physicians. Canadian medications are somewhat less restricted the the U.S., but I feel this article wants to deal more with regulating exotic pets than actually portraying the patients concerns and welfare.
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RE: Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't admi
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by psilocybe on December 10, 2007
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Larry,
The "friend developing antivenin" thing had me bowling over in laughter as well. I actually responded to the post about it on KS before I saw it here. I suppose it could be bad reporting, but the mere thought of some guy relying on his "friend's" home-brewed antivenin to save his hand nearly brought me to tears. Perhaps he's lucky that the doctors won't allow him to be infused with whatever cocktail his "friend" cooked up.
The "friend" calling it a dry-bite when his hand is about to fall off was also quite humorous.
Assuming the article is at least somewhat factually accurate, it sounds like this guy picked a real group of winners for his snake-bite emergency contact team.
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RE: Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't admi
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by tigers9 on December 13, 2007
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pics on the link
Z
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http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/12/11/bc-venom.html
Surrey man may lose finger after pet cobra bites him
Last Updated: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 | 2:24 AM ET
A man in Surrey, B.C., who may lose his finger after being bitten by his pet cobra, is calling for a change in medical policy so antivenin is readily available.
Jason Hansen said his finger turned black after being bitten and his whole arm is swollen nearly three times its size.
(CBC)
Jason Hansen told CBC News Tuesday that the five-year-old snake, named Eve, reached up and bit his finger when he changed the pet's tank last Thursday.
The bite was dry and no venom was released, but the neurotoxins in the snake's saliva caused serious tissue damage, he said.
"It's painful like a gunshot wound," Hansen said.
He said his finger turned black after being bitten and his whole arm is swollen to nearly three times its normal size.
After nearly a week in hospital and after undergoing surgeries on his hand, Hansen said his condition continues to worsen.
Jason Hansen's five-year-old pet Eve bit him on his finger when he changed its cage last Thursday.
(CBC)
"I think I have a 50-50 chance of losing my finger," he said. "It burns. It throbs constantly unless I'm given medication."
Hansen complained that the Surrey Memorial Hospital doesn't carry antivenin for cobra bites. When his friend provided doctors with five doses of antivenin developed by another friend, doctors refused to administer it, he said.
"I had it flew in myself from a private collector up north," said Hansen's friend, Dalvin Corrigal. "They [doctors] would not believe that it was indeed [antivenin]."
The B.C. Poison Control Centre said cobra bites in the province are extremely rare and antivenin is expensive and has a short shelf life.
Debra Kent of the B.C. Poison Control Centre says cobra bites in the province are extremely rare and antivenin is expensive with a short shelf life.
(CBC)
"If we needed exotic antivenin, we would get in from either Alberta or from Seattle. Those will be two closest locations," said the centre's program supervisor Debra Kent.
She said using antivenin from an unknown source may have caused more damage because an allergic reaction can be deadly.
Gary Oliver, an expert in snakes, said this latest incident demonstrates the need for government regulation on prohibiting poisonous cobras from being kept as pets.
"They shouldn't be in homes unless the person is qualified and gone through some form of certification and it's all registered," he said.
Hansen said he shouldn't be blamed for keeping a highly poisonous animal as a pet and likens his cobra to a pitbull.
He added that he wants to keep his pet.
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RE: Friend fuming that hospital doctors won't admi
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by tigers9 on December 17, 2007
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http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/12/17/bc-noantiveniminbc.html
Don't expect antivenin for exotic snakebites: B.C. health officials
Last Updated: Monday, December 17, 2007 | 3:14 PM ET
CBC News
A Surrey man who nearly lost his finger after a bite from his pet cobra is now home recovering, but B.C. health officials are warning the province has no supply of antivenin for exotic snakebites.
Jason Hansen, shown in hospital last week, said his finger turned black after being bitten and his whole arm swelled to nearly three times its size.
(CBC)
Jason Hansen, 36, was bitten by Eve, his pet albino cobra, on Dec. 6, and he is still suffering from the effects.
He has massive scarring on his arm and may still lose his finger, which is badly damaged. The bite was dry and no venom was released, but the neurotoxins in the snake's saliva caused serious tissue damage, he said.
"It just looks like a finger with no skin," he told CBC News on Friday.
Experts say the case should be a warning to people who collect exotic and dangerous pets that life-saving antivenin is difficult to get and not always effective.
Debra Kent, the supervisor of the B.C. Poison Control Centre, told CBC News that even if a hospital does have antivenin, doctors won't necessarily administer it to patients, because it is only effective in limited situations.
In Hansen's case, antivenin was eventually obtained from Alberta, but never administered, because his respiratory system wasn't failing, said Kent.
Jason Hansen's five-year-old pet cobra, Eve, bit him on his finger last week.
(CBC)
Many B.C. hospitals carry antivenin for bites from rattlesnakes, a species native to parts of B.C.'s southern interior, but they don't stock antivenin for non-native species such as cobras, said Kent.
"The two closest places to us that carry exotic snake antivenin are the Woodland Zoo in Seattle and Reptile World in Drumheller, Alberta," said Kent.
Michael Teller, the manager at the Woodland Zoo, told CBC News on Friday they have antivenin for all their poisonous snakes and they do get calls for incidents like Hansen's occasionally.
If the bite is verified, and if the situation is life-threatening, they will ship antivenin, but Teller said exotic snake antivenin is rare and expensive, meaning if they hand out their vials, they put themselves at risk.
"We don't have any in case anyone at our institution gets bitten, so then we have to be really cautious," Teller told CBC News on Friday.
Cobra bites are extremely rare, Kent said, but the latest incident has been a wakeup call for local health officials.
"We don't really know how many private collections there are in B.C. [of poisonous exotic snakes]," she said.
Hansen said there are a lot more than people think, and for that reason exotic snake antivenin should be readily available.
"If it's Drumheller, Alberta, that we have to get this stuff from, then maybe we should have some locally here as well."
--
http://www.rexano.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/rexano
http://www.exoticanimalforums.com/
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