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Bagging snakes
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by yoyoing on April 20, 2008
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I keep my venomous snakes quietly and without fanfare. As part of the emergency action plan required in FL, I notified Fire Rescue of them. My %$#^%$^ neighbor works for Fire Rescue and reported to the Homeowners's Association, which has subsequently demanded their removal.
I know they cannot make wildlife regulations and have pointed this out. My other piece of ammunition could be that they are demanding me to perform one of the more dangerous activities with HOTS. Does anyone have info on snake bite frequency related to bagging snakes? Seems to me that many bites I have heard of occur while doing this. I am not concerned about bagging, and certainly can, but maybe they would get nervous if I point out that while lying in the hospital bed; I will be clenching their demand letter to which I was complying.
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by Cro on April 20, 2008
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James, you are right about bagging snakes being dangerous, however, I do not know of any statistics that anyone has put together.
The case a month or two ago in Florida would be worth researching. From what I remember, it was similar to yours, and it turned out that the DNR rules took presidence over town or homeowners rules.
Hopefully, some of our Florida members will remember it better a provide you with a link to the information.
Good Luck if fighting the folks.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by LarryDFishel on April 20, 2008
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What kind of dwelling do you live in? If it's a single family house (i.e. not a duplex or apartment), and you didn't sign some sort of agreement with the homeowner's association that covers this, I don't think they have a leg to stand on.
On the other hand, that's why I have no intention of ever moving into a place with a homeowner's association. (I did my time in condo hell.)
Any chance you could get us a scan of the letter?
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by yoyoing on April 20, 2008
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I remember the Deltona, FL case where the State superceded the city government. This was very useful information.
I did sign a statement agreeing to follow the rules, which include only owning animals and pets on an approved list (snakes were not on the list, thus they say no ownership allowed). My return argument is that their list is of (companion) animals and pets and my snakes are considered wildlife. In FL, only the FWC is authorized and qualified to make regulations regarding wildlife. Nothing original here and historically accurate.
I will go to the Board meeting this week. Knowing what a bunch of pansies the members are, I suspect they will be shocked to be told that THEY are the ones asking ME to do something perilous.
That't my story and I'm sticking to it. Besides, I love venomous lizards, and lizards are allowed.
I likewise do not care for HOAs but got a great deal on a big single family home.
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by BGF on April 20, 2008
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That is the worst argument to be making as there are quite legitimate reasons to bag a snake (e.g. taking it for vet care). They can quite reasonably say that if you aren't competent enough to even bag it then how can you safely maintain them? Plus, that argument highlights the danger.
Instead, go with the wildlife angle and cite the recent precendent court case. That is your strongest argument.
Stress your competence to safely keep the snakes. e.g. what training you have, the fact that the snakes are in locked cages, you are able to manage them in all situations etc etc.
Cheers
Bryan
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by yoyoing on April 20, 2008
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Great advice Dr. Fry. I have already tried the high road, explaining the rigorous FL requirements and the Miami Dade Fire Rescue record. The other side continues to escalate the issue.
My thought was to exploit their paranoia. I know these people and their fear of liability. This could selfishly win the battle for me, but hurts the larger cause. Thanks for grounding me.
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by yoyoing on April 21, 2008
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I re-read my response to BGF and see that it
sounds sarcastic. It wasn't. I do appreciate being talked down and advised how to be a more effective emissary for our community (but didn't ask for the job under these circumstances).
I will also provide an update when things are over.
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by Cro on April 21, 2008
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James, I do not think your reply to Dr. Fry sounded sarcastic. I do agree with him though that the snake bag argument could turn against you.
Your comment "I know these people and their fear of liability" makes me think it would be to your advantage to show up at their meetings with an attorney and perhaps someone from the Wildlife Resources Division. That way they know you are serious.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Bagging snakes
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by BGF on April 23, 2008
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I didn't think it was sarcastic mate.
Bringing an attorney indeed would be a very strong move.
Is there any privacy violation that the fire & rescue person can be gotten on? You gave that information to the local fire & rescue as legally required. Your neighbor did not have the right to disseminate that information to the homeowners association.
Cheers
B
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