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live feeding
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by tigers9 on April 19, 2008
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OK, this issue is rather complicated with the dog hanging by legs and rabbit throwing (yes, stupid, immature, idiotic show off), but that is just a sideshow/distraction from a real issue, I have been saying this for a loooooong time, eventually they/AR freaks will call feeding live prey animal abuse/suffering, AR are pushing the threshold of what is acceptable moving the ‘center/norm’ more to the extreme of nothing is acceptable, what was middle ground a year ago is not accepted now.
‘intentionally hurt the animals’, yeah, the idea was to have snake kill/eat it, so I guess all who feed live are now guilty of intentionally hurting the animals since the reason we breed/buy rodents is to have snake kill/eat it?
I might sound extreme now to some non converts, but few weeks/years from now I will have to buy a copyright/trademark/whatever from Rush Limbaugh and tell u ” see I told u so”
Yeah, this particular kid might be a total moron,(likely is, but by giving any credibility to AR regarding live feeding we r on a slippery slope.
;-)
end of rant
Z
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http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_2021596.php
Friday, April 18, 2008
Videotaped snake feeding troubles breeder
Humane Society representative calls video “very disturbing.”
By SONYA SMITH
The Orange County Register
Comments 36| Recommend 14
The arrest of a 19-year-old Anaheim Hills man on six counts of animal cruelty raises the question of what animal cruelty is and what it means.
RELATED STORIES:
• Update on animals harmed in MySpace video
• Man accused of videotaped animal cruelty appears in court
On Thursday, Joseph Anthony Deiss surrendered to authorities after a $10,000 warrant was issued for his arrest on charges of animal cruelty. Those charges are based on a MySpace video, credited to Deiss, showing a man swinging a small dog by its legs and repeatedly throwing a rabbit in the air, only to let it crash to the ground.
“From our perspective there's clear video evidence that the suspect appeared to intentionally harm the animals,” said Dale Bartlett, deputy manager for animal cruelty at the Humane Society, which is based in Washington, D.C.
But, Bartlett said the video's ending of a rabbit being fed to the snake may or may not be considered animal cruelty. Still he called that portion of the video “very disturbing.”
The video shows the man who authorities believe is Deiss putting the rabbit called Ginger in a small cage, telling her she would be more comfortable. He then shifts the rabbit in a larger cage and the camera zooms in on a large snake in the cage. The rabbit sits in the corner as the camera follows the snake as it makes its way to the rabbit and grabs it, squeezing the life out of the small animal.
A voice in the background can be heard saying: "Ginger. Oh, no. There's a snake in there. Ginger. What a bummer. I didn't even realize it."
The video zooms in on the eyes of the rabbit in the clutches of the snake.
“It's one thing to feed an animal to your snake,” Bartlett said. “But, it's another thing to videotape the animal slowly suffering.”
Bartlett suggested that if Deiss is found guilty, he be given jail time, psychological counseling and a court-ordered ban on owning animals in the future.
“Animal cruelty can be one of the earliest and most dramatic indicators that an individual is developing a pattern of seeking power and control by inflicting suffering on others,” according to the Humane Society's website.
The videotaping of the snake-feeding upset Anaheim's Sherman Cunningham, a snake breeder. He said videotaping the feeding is “uncalled for” and said it is just done for shock value.
Cunningham said that most baby snakes will only eat live prey. Still, he said that he can usually adjust the snakes to eating already-dead, frozen and then thawed prey.
“You're not traumatizing the animals – they are not being chased around the cage,” he said.
Cunningham said that using already-dead prey also protects the snakes. He said small mice, for example, can bite and scratch the snakes –injuring the snake's eyes, lungs or body. Cunningham said he's heard of rats, mice, rabbits and suckling pigs being fed to snakes.
“A lot of people do feed live rabbits and other things to their snakes,” Cunningham said. “But as far as the video taping goes, nobody I know does that stuff.”
Contact the writer: 714-704-3793 or sosmith@ocregister.com
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RE: live feeding
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by squigy on April 20, 2008
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Ok as far as feeding live prey....there's always going to be a bleeding heart out there. Showing anything on video is already opening up yourself to critizism. And an argument either way is like beating a dead horse....live prey for some animals makes my life easier and others is just as you say "shock value" but I put nothing on tape or the internet so no fight.
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RE: live feeding
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by Rob_Carmichael on April 20, 2008
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showing video of live feeding is unethical if its done for entertainment such as this situation. My own philosophy is that prey animals should suffer as little as possible, or not at all, and only used in extreme situations (most captive reptiles will quickly learn to take dead prey). The practice of "stunning" is another cruel and unecessary method and in fact, is actually dangerous to the animal being fed and something I don't like to see. All it does is give more fuel to the fire to AR right groups if folks insist on doing stuff like this, keep it to yourself. Unfortunately, the herp community has great folks and many bad apples and those loose cannons/screws makes us all look like a bunch of yahoos when this stuff pops up on youtube, etc.
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RE: live feeding
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by tigers9 on April 20, 2008
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I feed live food to supplement my turtles diet and also as a form of enrichment.
I am talking about earth and meal worms , and feeder goldfish. I made a video of my semiaquatic turtle catching 2 fish at the same time. It was NOT taped for entertainment, it is just ‘documentary’ of how mother nature works, animals kill and eat other animals.
Would showing this type of live feeding video (worms, fish) produce the same outcry or not since we no longer have the cute fuzzy hairy bunny factor? At what point am I risking being labeled abuser and at what point am I just showing my animal husbandry and doing educational video, what is the fine line???? Yes, catching 2 fish at the same time can be entertaining, but it was NOT a set up. I guess if I hold my camcorder which is basically attached to my hip, I am an abuser, if I don’t show you, I am OK? (Insert sarcasm)
How much of what we do has to be kept hidden so we are not bothered? When I go to pet store I clearly ask for FEEDER goldfish. So I can buy and feed it, just not show the public what is done with it afterwards, well, there goes Discovery channel 5 years from now ;-)...
OK to show violent video games, but not real animal kingdom life.I guess I will have to listen to Bloodhound gang 'discovery channel' song when nobody is around .
Isn’t feeding live more natural to the animals ? Besides, the animal has to be killed by people who produce frozen rodent packages? Is that rodent death any better or more humane at the factory that what snake/monitor can do? Dead is dead.
AR complain we can not provide captive animals with what they need, well, HSU$ needs to $HUT up, I would $AY by feeding live I am closer to what animals would do in the wild…
Just something to think about…
Z
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RE: live feeding
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by tigers9 on April 20, 2008
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For those of you who never heard/saw Bloodhound Gang Discovery Channel video, here it is, WARNING, male humans dart females like animals, male humans eat LIVE mealworms, SHOCK value
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-GVhBGPuE
Z
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RE: live feeding
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by tigers9 on April 20, 2008
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<< “From our perspective there's clear video evidence that the suspect appeared to intentionally harm the animals,” said Dale Bartlett, deputy manager for animal cruelty at the Humane Society, which is based in Washington, D.C.>>
Meet Dave, the animal cruelty expert from HSUS, OMG, what is next, banjo player for US president to fight war for oil in Middle east? Maybe I should invite Dave to join REXANO myspace. NOT
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=148820458
http://www.hsus.org/acf/campaign/db_bio.html
What exactly makes this suit/tie man an animal expert???
Z
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RE: live feeding
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by Buzztail1 on April 21, 2008
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While I understand your worries about animal rights groups exploiting this, anyone throwing a rabbit up in the air repeatedly and then putting it in a cage and filming it with commentary like what you have described is, in fact, perpetrating animal cruelty.
I simply refuse to lift a finger to help someone who is clearly this socially unconscious.
YouTube and other sites that allow people to post "See How Stupid I Am" videos are going to garner a lot of negative press. We will not help any cause by defending these morons and their stupidity.
Feeding live - feeding frozen/thawed - it doesn't matter. You won't win this arguement with "See Buttermilk the cow? Wasn't she cute before she was made into Big Macs?" Most pet stores know why you buy a dozen mice every other week or a rabbit once a month. You don't need to advertise it on YouTube. If you do advertise it - you get what you deserve!
Just my own opinion.
R/
Karl
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RE: live feeding
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by tigers9 on April 21, 2008
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This edited video is all i found so far , seems like news is more concerned about the bunny throwing, it was HSU$ that wanted to use the opportunity to label live feeding 'possible abuse' as well.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local&id=6088174
Anyway, maybe it is my background, I came from a small town in former Eastern Europe, I spent one summer working in poultry slaughering factory to earn some money as teenager, so I know what my chiken looks like form an egg until I eat it.And this sterilization/hiding of what is happening in mother nature is a foreign concept to me (I am not talking about stupid bunny thrower,i am talking about live feeding in general)
Just my opinion, i think I will just shut up now.
Z
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