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rattlesnakes
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by codeman on July 27, 2008
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Does anyone know what the most venonmous rattlesnake is? I've heard alot of arguments between the mojave and the neotropical.
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RE: rattlesnakes
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by Cro on July 27, 2008
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Cody, that question gets asked here from time to time over the years.
Unfortunatly, it is kind of like asking "what is the most dangerous truck to get run over by."
Everyone in this country has this fasination of pinning down fastest, shortest, tallest, most deadly, heaviest, longest, etc, etc, etc.
The truth is that the question can not be answered.
Some rattlesnakes have venoms that are drop for drop more deadly, however, some larger rattlesnakes with weaker venoms, but the ability to deliver a huge amount of venom in a bite, will kill many more people every year.
Also, we are finding that some populations of rattlesnakes might have very wicked strongly neurotoxic venom as juveniles when they are eating mostly lizards, then the same snakes will modify their venom as they age and start to feed on mainly rodents, and the venom will have vastly different properties then.
Also, we are finding that in different populations of the same snake, the venom can be vastly different from one population to another, or can even be mixed in some populations.
The Mojave Rattlesnake that you mentioned might have what is known as a type A venom, or it might have what is known as a type B venom. And the resulting bites would be hugely different. Same thing happens within populations of the Eastern Diamondbacked Rattlesnake, and in the Canebrake (Timber) Rattlesnake, in some of the Neotropical Rattlesnakes, in some of the Pacific Coast Rattlesnakes, and in other populations of rattlesnakes.
Another factor is that some rattlesnake populations tend to cross breed. It is very common in certain western areas to find Mojave and Western Diamondback Rattlesnake crosses. What kind of venom is that beast going to have ? Hard to say. Same thing happens in the Neotropical Rattlesankes, some of which have vastly different venoms. When they cross breed, does the venom get weaker, stronger, or stay the same ? Who knows.
Another factor, would be the individual response of the bitten person to a particular type of venom. It could be that some people would have a higher survival rate from one type of venom than from another, due to differences in their physiological makeup.
Sorry for not answering the question, however, I really believe that the question just can not be answered.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: rattlesnakes
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by jparker1167 on July 28, 2008
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Cody, that question gets asked here from time to time over the years.
Unfortunatly, it is kind of like asking "what is the most dangerous truck to get run over by."
lol thats a perfect way to put it, when it counts does it matter if the rattler that just bit you is less venomous then another. i cant remember for sure but i think the neotropical rates higher on the ld50.
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RE: rattlesnakes
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by jared on July 28, 2008
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Keep in mind that there are lots of questions regarding Ld50 and dosage for humans compared to mice. Heck, bushmasters are almost the same as copperheads for Ld50, but they are the exact opposite when it comes to human envenomation.
Jared
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RE: rattlesnakes
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by FLAohHerper on July 29, 2008
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I agree with everyone,however,I once read that the tiger rattlesnake had drop for drop,toxicity wise, the most potent venom? Any truth to that?
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RE: rattlesnakes
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by Cro on July 29, 2008
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Mike, you are right about the Tiger Rattlesnake having the lowest LD50 Score for 20 gram mice, both when injected Subcutaneous and Intravenous.
The Subcutaneous Score was 0.21 mg/kg and the Intravenous Score 0.056 mg/kg. This would make Tiger Rattlesnake venom the most toxic "drop for drop" of the rattlesnakes, and rate them about #17 in toxcisity when compared to snakes worldwide.
This venom contains crotoxin and/or Mojave toxins. These are powerful neurotoxins.
This snake however, has a LOW Venom Yield when it bites. ( 6.0 to 11.0 mg ) This is probably due to it not needing much venom to do the job of immobilizing the lizards and small rodents that it feeds on.
So, the Tiger Rattlesnake might have venom that drop for drop is the most deadly to mice, but does that make it the most deadly rattlesnake ?
Not if you are talking about the rattlesnake that kills the most people. And not if you are talking about the rattlesnake that causes the largest amount of tissue damage. Many of the larger rattlesnakes are much more likely to produce a fatal bite.
Just for fun, let's compare the Tiger Rattlesnake to the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake, which has a venom yield of 200 to 850 mg, and the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake, which has a venom yield of 175 to 600 mg, and the Timber Rattlesnake that has a venom yield of 75 to 210 mg. From this you can see that the bite of one of these larger rattlesnakes could deliver anything from 15 times more venom to over 150 times more venon in a single bite than a Tiger Rattlesnake could deliver !
While the Toxicity if these venoms drop for drop is much lower, that is more than made up for by the huge venom yields.
(The Subcutaneous LD Score for EDB and WDB Venoms is about 14.0 to 18.0 mg/kg, and the Intravenous LD Score for EDB and WDB Rattlesnake Venoms is about 1.65 to 2.72 mg/kg in 20 gram mice. The Timber Rattlesnake has Subcutaneous Score of 3.1 mg/kg, and 2.1 mg/kg Intravenous Score.
So, I guess the question "Which Rattlesnake is the Most Venonmous ?" really depends on how you want to define "most venomous."
Best Regards John Z
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RE: rattlesnakes
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by puffadder7 on July 29, 2008
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even though tigers have a lower ld50 in some cases many herpetologsit still say mojaves are the most toxic, arin
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RE: rattlesnakes
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by soberwolf on July 30, 2008
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The Mohave is known to carry a much higher toxicity in some areas but most deaths in the U.S. are atributed the the Western Diamondback. Keep in mind tho, the WD has a much higher population than most Rattlesnakes combined.
Shelby
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