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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by JSargent on November 5, 2008
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i've raised and had a western diamondback in an aquarium for the last 12 yrs w/ no ill effects...my albino cane has also been raised in one since i've had her, 3 yrs now....all my rattlesnakes and copperheads seem to prefer aquariums over tubs...i have one open front cage and the copper in that cage comes out almost every time i open his cage....it's all on what you like to work with and how your snake room is set up..... my 2 cents
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by Cro on November 5, 2008
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Jamie makes some very good points.
I also use a lot of "critter cage" type aquariums with sliding screen tops, and they work well.
In the past, I had a lot of Neodesha sliding front cages, which I also liked, but they became brittle with age, and I traded them off.
What you don't want to do is "loome" over a cage when you work with the snake in it. Using a hook keeps you at some distance, which is good. If there is a good hide box, the snake will be more comfortable, and should get used to your routine, wether it is from in front of the cage, or from above the cage.
Because the aquarium type cages I have are on shelves, they have to be removed one at a time to service the cages. This creates extra work. When I had the sliding front Neodeshas on the same shelf, they did not have to be removed, so working them was much quicker.
I guess everyone will have their individual cage opening preferences.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by Rob_Carmichael on November 5, 2008
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It's interesting to hear about peoples' preferences on this subject. Personally, I like front or back opening cages (we have both in our exhibit halls). Taking venomous snakes out the top (and putting them back in) is a real pain in the you know what. With elapids, it's even more difficult. I feel like I have much more control with front opening cages and I personally like sliding glass doors (or doors like the one piece neodeshas - best one I've seen) over hinged doors. But, there's no absolutes. Folks need to use what they feel comfortable with.
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by theemojohnm on November 5, 2008
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James,
I agree that aquariums, and the "Critter Cage" sytle cages John describes CAN be used, I just always found it less stressful to the animal, easier to work with, and nicer looking, to build (or purchase, although many of the comercial cage models today are ridiculously priced) cages.
Actually, now, when I do purchase glass aquariums, it is to cut them apart at the silicone seams (because I like the demensions of many) to build my own hinged cages (that open at the top and "swing down" on a hinge). I find it cheaper in my area to purchase say, a 29g glass aquarium, cut the two large panels out, and use them for the larger rattlesnake cages, and the two small panels for smaller pitviper cages, rather than pay to have glass cut.
I have heard people make statements such as, "no glass aquarium top can ever be safe"... This is simply not true. There are a few good comercial mesh lid and even plexi lids that are avaliable at pet shops and online. There is even more possibilities to make such secure tops for venomous snakes by building your own. I just have a huge, and somtimes overly obsessive concern for keeping the animals stress level at a minimum, and have always found it better, for long-term caging, to build my own "hinged down" cages.
I feel it is safer too.
Certainly, many standard aquarium dimensions, such as a standard 30g long tank, would work well for a venomous enclosure with a proper lid, but I still cover the sides with a black adhesive-backed paper, or other covering. I feel that the taller glass aquariums do not work as well because there is more "exposed" area, where the animals see every movement around them.
Comming in from above for feeding or maintenance, is just more un-needed stress and work in my opinion.
I DO use glass aquariums sometimes as quarantine tanks, or temporary housing, but find Rubbermaid or Sterilite tubs do a better job because of their translucent quality, limiting the animals visiblility of every outside movement.
There are certainly situations where glass aquariums, or "top-opening" enclosures work, but I have always found it worth it to build my own cages, which are not very tall, with ONE viewing window, which open from the top, hinged at the bottom, openning downward.
The bottom line is, use whatever you feel comfortable with Jon. Just be careful when feeding and servicing a cage from an "awkward" angle from ABOVE the snake, where it may be likely to be more "on edge" being "loomed over".
Take Care.
~John Mendrola.
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by 23bms on November 5, 2008
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I am sure it will come as no surprise to anyone who has read my idiosyncratic posts in the past that I am with the contrarians on this one. All my cages, except for four purchased front openers, are home built top openers. I really, really, really dislike irate venomous projectiles launching themselves out the front. With the top openers, they are too busy looking at me through the front to worry about what's overhead. Maybe once or twice a year someone will go up. I kind of like that ratio. I don't think it adds any stress. Again, they are watching me through the front. That is the stress.
I keep non-venomous in the front openers. They love to come flying out, and they don't readily take no for an answer. Why would I put my antisocial asper, who almost invariably goes horizontal (typically at high sub-sonic speed), into something like that??? I wouldn't feed him with 4 foot tongs horizontally.
This is probably mostly a matter of personal taste, but I am convinced, based on many years of experience, that the keeper is at far less risk with top openers.
jrb
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by theemojohnm on November 5, 2008
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Good point Rob!
I do like sliding front myself aswell, but one particular time I was a bit on edge with a VERY pissy Naja kaouthia, that came "shooting out og the cage in my direction.
Wouldnt you know, I attempted to slide the other cage door closed as she was doing this, and after some use of this particular cage, the doors didnt slide as smoothly as they did when the cage was purchased a year ealier.
Anyways, that cobra wound up nearly hitting the floor, lunging directly at me (VERY pissy WC specimen LOL), and took extra work to try and hook back into the cage while barely catching herself before hitting the floor.
I have heard similar stories about substrate being jammed in the tracks of slidding-front cgaes, but have never experienced this. It just seems that with Visions sliding-front cages, that they become "rough" over time, and the tracks do not work aswell for sliding the doors closed quikly enough.
As stated, whatever you feel comfortable with, is the best option for you.
Take Care.
~John Mendrola.
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by theemojohnm on November 5, 2008
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Well 23bms,
I am just reading your post after posting my account of the Naja kaouthia that scared the hell out of me last year, and can clearly see your point.
I actually have recently seen a top-opening cage (home-built by a friend of mine, that looked like it work fairly well, limit visibility for the animal from above, and subsequently stress.
Another reason for my dislike of top-opening cages, is they are rather awkward to arrange in a large collection, unless you have sufficient room in between each cage when stacked.
Is there any way you could send me a picture of one of your home0built enclosures? I love comparing designs, and would love to see the designs that have worked well for you for so long.
My email is Johnmendrola@yahoo.com
Take Care.
~John Mendrola.
Is there any way
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by theemojohnm on November 5, 2008
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meant "home-built"
And minus the second "is there any way"...
LOL... I hate not being able to edit posts!
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by 23bms on November 5, 2008
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re: I have heard people make statements such as, "no glass aquarium top can ever be safe..."
When the Staten Island Zoo remodeled the reptile wing a couple of years back, they partially recreated Kauffeld's office in the front left corner of the redesigned wing (his actual office wasn't in the reptile wing). Along the the glass partition separating the faux office from the public area, they have half a dozen aquariums, most housing venomous. I have never been a fan of housing venomous in aquariums, regardless of how the lid was secured, and, with the possible exception of the 'nursery' at the Bronx Zoo reptile house, I don't recall ever having seen them used in a exhibition at a reputable zoo. I don't know what was going through their minds when they set that up. Somewhere, sooner or later, some kid is going to try that at home (That's how they house them at the Zoo!) and either get nailed or have something nasty get loose. Then yet more laws will be enacted... You know the rest.
jrb
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RE: Can anyone tell me the dangers/anything else..
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by pictigaster1 on November 5, 2008
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I keep american central and south american terestral vipers all mid size all top open cages this will never change. I have worked with elapids in visions never agin.Talk about living on the edge.
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