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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by 23bms on November 10, 2008
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I think all of my field bites have come from Thamnophis (my worst bite ever - the whole hand blew up), Nerodia (hard to get away from Natrix), and Lampropeltis.
I don't think I've ever been bitten by anything else with the sole exception of a Boa Constrictor when I was about ten. I was showing it to an elderly neighbor out in his front yard. Maybe being outdoors set it off. I don't know. The neighbor was one of the Nobel Prize winners for the discovery of cortisone. He sold eggs to everyone in the area, and was never lacking in time to spend with - and encourage - the silly kids living nearby.
jrb
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by Rob_Carmichael on November 11, 2008
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Folks, I think we're missing some serious points here. First and foremost, you can't train yourself in the keeping of venomous snakes with harmless species. Sure, you can learn proper use of hooks, tongs, shields, safety etc which are vitally important which is why I tell folks to not rush into the keeping of venomous herps...start with harmless species and develop good habits. But, to think that you can work with a water snake, black racer, coachwhip, etc and that is going to get you ready for a fast moving elapid, or, crotaline, I think is missing the mark. The biggest factor is psychological - the first time you are working with something that you know can kill you, everything changes....everything. There are even some species I work with that I have to admit, I don't always feel like I'm in complete control in all circumstances...you have to know your limits. That's why it's so important to work under a responsible and proven mentor (not the many nut jobs I hear about here) who can help train your psychological approach towards the responsibile keeping of venomous reptiles. Good habits, attention to detail, sound body and mind, confidence but not over confidence, proper equipment/facilities and always assuming the worst in every snake in every instant will bode well for a safe experience.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by LadyBloodRose on November 11, 2008
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Rob does make a verry good point, there is no subtitue for workig with the real deal. thats soemthing I've told several people in the past.
Your heart realy gets to thumpin the first time the snake dun wnana cuoperate with you. Espiclay when it comes to big ol fast critters. I have to admit though of what I keep atm, My Cottonmouths are the easyest to work with compared to my canes etc.
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by BitisDude on November 11, 2008
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I know that there's no substitution for the real deal, but I want something, like Rob said, to help me better learn the necassary and safe precautions needed to keep venomous snakes. I just want Nerodia because I feel like that would be a better snake to work with since I'm wanting to get into American pit-vipers.
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by TheFifthDay on November 11, 2008
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Sorry - My brother forgot so sign out of his account. BitisDude is my younger brother. That was me who said "I know that there's no substitution for the real deal, but I want something, like Rob said, to help me better learn the necassary and safe precautions needed to keep venomous snakes. I just want Nerodia because I feel like that would be a better snake to work with since I'm wanting to get into American pit-vipers."
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by theemojohnm on November 11, 2008
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Obviously nobody can relate any harmless snake to the real deal for a "trainer species". But nobody should EVER go out and buy a black mamba after keeping coperheads for a month. Why? Because mambas are wirey, very fast, agile, and complete nut cases somtimes, compared to that heavy bodied pitviper, that coperhead. Look at that scenario.
As I have stated in this thread already Jon, there is NO substitution for the real thing, but, I think that based on body structure, and behavior, most snakes of the Nerodia genus would work better for someone interested in pitvipers, for those reasons.
Rob makes a statement in his post that is VERY well put and 100% true.
"...the first time you are working with something that you know can kill you, everything changes....everything."
Species isnt as important for a "trainer snake", but you want somthing at first, that will display similar movements and behaviors (especially the defensive ones), that you may be faced with when dealing with a cottonmouth. Getting used to dealing with those movements and behaviors is better done with somthing that will act and behave similar to that cottonmouth.
FAR better to learn the hard way with a Nerodia spp. over a cottonmouth!
Take Care.
~John Mendrola.
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by 23bms on November 11, 2008
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I agree that there is no such thing as a 'training snake' for working somewhere down the road with venomous. I remember the first time I picked up a venomous - with lots of non-venomous experience behind me. Forget the past experience. I was shaking.
On the other hand, you can learn a great deal about how snakes move and react by working with some of the nastier or more hysterical non-venomous. That knowledge can form a foundation for future work under the tutelage of an experienced venomous keeper. The foundation should not be disparaged. You don't jump to calculus from the fundamentals of addition. You grow through a succession of stages as you gradually advance your skills. Lets not forget that.
jrb
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by SnakeEyes2006 on November 11, 2008
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Geesh guys, I have had northern Copperheads (3 gravid females) had 37 babies all together, and I could put my hand in the tank with all 40 of them and grab/pick anyone of those up without getting even tounge flicked, not to brag but all species of animals can be real pissy or can be really mellow.. By the way all my Copperheads were WC....
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by Cro on November 11, 2008
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Working with non-venomous snakes will not get you ready for venomous snakes, however, it will improve your skills in using snake hooks, if you use them on the non-venomous snakes.
There is a whole generation of herpers who grew up watching their heros on TV using Tongs ! This is really unfortunate, as tongs are lousy for field work, or for working with snakes in cages in a collection.
Many of these young herpers have really poor skills when they try to use a snake hook, and would benefit from a lot more practice using them.
That way, when they finally move up to a mentor, and working with venomous snakes, they will be way ahead of the game if they have practiced with hooks, no matter if the hooks were used on water snakes, or racers, or coachwhipps, or even on corn snakes.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Does anyone know where you can buy Nerodia?
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by geckolover on November 16, 2008
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Though I may sound stupid disagreeing with theemojohnm when I havn't kept snakes more than a month at a time, I must say I've caught sipedons at my local spot and hand tamed them in an hour, if you could call tolerating handling with out biting hand tame, its tame for a water snake.
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