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Nisk Question(s)
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by Katz on March 20, 2009
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Well, here I am again! My latest inquiries include snake hearing other than vibrations? And most importantly, how do I (an elderly lady who would never dream of keeping a venemous reptile) encourage respect for these amazing critters? I've advocated www.VenomousReptiles.org for hikers -- and suggestions such as tossing a handful of sand / pebbles) then waiting a bit until Mr. Nisk has departed. I've promoted possible medical advances...donated as much as possible, but, so much more needs to be done. Slaughtering rattlesnakes accomplishes...what??? Torturing cobras by sewing their mouths shut? As a former first-grade teacher, how do we go beyond Gopher Snakes to respect for venomous reptiles?
You experts are the best-est. Looking forward to your input. Hiss, hiss, thankx Katz
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by FSB on March 21, 2009
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Katz, your question sums up the ongoing quandary for all of us: "How do (we) encourage respect for these amazing critters?" Actually, as an "elderly lady" who has taught first grade and would never dream of keeping venomous reptiles, you may have a better shot at it than many of us, who are too easily dismissed as members of a lunatic fringe that loves snakes and tempts death...
Nothing is going to change peoples' minds about venomous snakes overnight, or in mass. These fears, misconceptions and misunderstandings have been around for too long, and ignorance is like a mess that's a whole lot easier to create than to clean up. A lot of us here give educational programs, but at most we can change only a few minds at a time. The thing is for everyone to keep doing that, and not to give up, since a great huge pile of sand is after all made up of many small grains, and every mind we change is one more in our pile.
One thing that tells me that we're in the right, however, is that while it is possible to convert people away from their irrational fears and ignorance to come over to our side, it doesn't go the other way. Once someone knows and understands the truth about snakes, they aren't suddenly going to see the err of their ways and become ophidiophobic.
Keep reading and researching all you can - arm yourself with knowledge. One good source of ammunition is Jason Clark's site Southern Reptile Rescue:
http://www.snakesareus.com/the_only_good_snake
"The Only Good Snake" section there has a lot of very useful information about how various venoms are contributing to medical research. An especially good one to bring up, I have found, is the recent discovery of a protein in copperhead venom that has provided the basis for a new drug called contortrostatin that attacks the blood vessels supplying nutrients to breast cancer tumors, effectively cutting off the tumor's blood supply and halting its growth. Unlike chemotherapy, this treatment targets only the vessels feeding the tumor, and does not affect healthy tissue. Snake venoms are full of unknown molecules that have the "smart" ability to target very specific tissues, which is why they have such great potential value as therapeutic agents that do not result in undesirable side effects.
I have no doubt that venom will prove to be one of the most fantastically useful substances in all of Nature, and we know so little about it that to destroy the source of a single type could well prove fatal for many patients down the road somewhere. Foresight, alas, has never been a human strength.
Just because something is well-armed does not mean that it is malicious or evil. Nature has entrusted venomous snakes, which are wholly devoid of malice and guile, with its most powerful chemical weapons and delivery systems. Imagine the wreckage and mayhem if humans had been given that power. We probably wouldnt have made it out of our first century. Nature is indeed very wise.
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by earthguy on March 22, 2009
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I try hard to to anthropomorhize nature, but that last statement was VERY profound Fred. I'll have to file that one away in the memory for later.
Katz, I can't tell you how much you help by just being interested. As a teacher I am sure you are aware...but curiosity is contaigous.
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by FSB on March 23, 2009
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Thanks, Josh - I normally do not like to anthropomorphize either.
I had an interesting experience yesterday, however. My son Sebastian has befriended two very bright young lads whose parents are both ministers at a local Baptist church, so I woke up with this little voice in my head telling me we should go attend one of their services and check it out. I mostly shy away from the old Country Baptists around here, finding them to be rather narrow-minded and ignorant in general, but these folks are educated and unusual and have a penchant for Greek and Norse mythology. I really enjoy informed theologians who can talk intelligently about Scripture without just praising Jesus and asking for money.
To my amazement, the topic of the sermon was "The Bronze Serpent," referring to the passage in Numbers 21 where the grumblesome Israelites were beset by venomous snakes (most likely Echis) in the wilderness.
The minister and his family had just returned from a vacation to Georgia, and had visited the Atlanta Zoo. It was amazing to hear him recount during his sermon their visit to the reptile house, and how they were amazed by seeing the black mamba, etc. He also stressed in his sermon that God had created venomous snakes and that He did not kill or drive away the snakes that were biting the Israelites, but instructed Moses to create a bronze serpent and erect it on a pole so that anyone who was bitten might look upon it and live. Whatever your beliefs (or lack thereof) about who created what, it was something of a revelation to hear an even-handed sermon about venomous snakes in a Baptist church!
Incidentally my current reply to creationists and "intelligent designers" is: With God, all things are possible (including evolution!).
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by earthguy on March 23, 2009
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4th Sunday in Lent - Same scripture every year . My minister did faily well with the 'fiery serpents' from Acts. I am contemplating a serious sermon (Hell and Brimstone) about the evils of rattlesnake roundoups and why every Christian should be against them (with proper Biblical backing of course). I have it about 60% completed in my head. What can I say? I have to do something during the boring sermons :-). Once completed I will post the transcript here for proper prostelization :-)
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by AquaHerp on March 23, 2009
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Given that snakes eat so seldom and kill with amazing efficiency, this makes them possibly the least violent of all predators on the planet.
No snake is "aggressive", albeit many will defend themselves aggressively.
DH
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by yoyoing on March 24, 2009
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Given what you say, DH, I have to wonder if exterminating snakes has a huge impact on rodent populations.
I am on the side of snakes, but need some evidence for the claims that destroying them greatly increases the number of rodents. With the way the vermin multiply, there must be other predators assisting in their control. How can one successfully argue that snakes are "necessary" for this function?
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by AquaHerp on March 24, 2009
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Snakes are a needed part of the eco-system. If they were not, they wouldn't be there.
I have always found it tough having to "justify" any living creature.
Owls, coyote, skunks and more all do thier part in rodent control, but you'll never see one of them slip down a burrow after one. Maybe a mink....now there's an endearing creature eh? I once heard a comedian talking about fur coats. "a mink? have you ever met a mink? Don't think for a second they wouldn't be wearing us if they could"!
DH
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by yoyoing on March 25, 2009
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I agree with the sentiment that eco-systems are elegant relationships but that does not address the issue. Lots of "needed" parts are sadfully no longer "there".
How convincincing can one be that snakes are needed to address rodent control (for example as an argument against roundups)?
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RE: Nisk Question(s)
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by Buzztail1 on March 25, 2009
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How about this data:
"The headlines were gripping: two people were hospitalized in New York City in November 2002 with bubonic plague."
http://rarediseases.about.com/cs/bubonicplague/a/111602.htm
"During the initial consultations with medical personnel, the couple reported that routine surveillance conducted by the New Mexico Department of Health (NMDOH) had identified Y. pestis in a dead wood rat and fleas collected in July 2002 on their New Mexico property. The hotel physician notified the ED about the arrival of two possible plague patients and the need for respiratory isolation pending the exclusion of pulmonary infection. Hospital infection-control and administration personnel were contacted to coordinate appropriate in-hospital precautions and education. The NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (NYCDOHMH), the New York State DOH, NMDOH, and CDC were contacted to facilitate diagnostic testing, coordinate public health response, and assess the possibility of terrorism. After determining that these two plague cases probably were acquired naturally, a press conference was held to reassure the public that the exposures had occurred in New Mexico, a known plague-endemic area, and not in NYC."
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5231a1.htm
"Rattlesnake roundups take place from January through July in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Alabama, and Georgia."
http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues_facing_wildlife/rattlesnake_roundups/
"The "Black Death" of the Middle Ages was due to large numbers of flea-ridden rats infesting homes and workplaces. In most developed countries, cities and towns have successfully controlled their rat populations, but rural and urban areas of developing countries often have problems with rat infestation, and thus are at risk of bubonic plague epidemics. Therefore, reducing the risk of plague outbreaks in these areas would require:
Controlling the rat population
Watching for plague cases in both rats and humans in the area
Using insecticide to reduce the number of fleas
Treating pets for fleas"
http://rarediseases.about.com/cs/bubonicplague/a/111602.htm
Just a few quick soundbytes courtesy of google.
So.
The Bubonic Plague still exists in the United States!
I am sure that it is only a minor coincidence that the states with the highest occurrence of Bubonic Plague also conduct Rattlesnake Roundups!
R/
Karl
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