to all the experts - experts Forum at VenomousReptiles.org

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by theemojohnm on April 11, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Stefanie, I assume your are looking for a general comparison to other venomous species? That question (at least the way it is worded) is a bit vague. Are you searching for general venom yield, comparison to other Naja, an LD50 rating, or a description of usual symptoms? Thank you for filling in your profile completely. There are many folks here who specialize in Elapids. While my personal forte is vipers, I will forward your question to the people I feel most qualified to answer, if I can get a better idea of the information your are looking for. Take Care, -John Mendrola. (Pennsylvania Woodland Herpetological).

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by Buzztail1 on April 11, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Most of the "experts" here are not clinical toxinologists and will only be able to point you in the direction of others who can definitively answer your question. I would suggest that you compare the values for cobra venoms as posted on Bryan Grieg Fry's LD50 explanation pages. http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/LD50men.html I hope that you find the answer that you are looking for within the data he has posted. R/ Karl

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by puffadder7 on April 11, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
i guess i did not awnser your question, i know i am young and do not have as much knowledge as some people on here, but i do specialize in elapids, also when you mean how 'toxic' forest cobras are, do you mean ld50, which dr. bryan fry's website does not have forest cobra ld50, or do you mean compared to all naja species, you have to be specific, arin

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by Bobby123 on April 12, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
They are highly venomous reptiles with neurotoxic venom. They grow very very big(2.7m) and can deliver a huge amount of venom in a single bite.

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by Buzztail1 on April 12, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Sorry Arin, but in this instance, you are incorrect. Dr. Fry's website does indeed give Forest Cobra LD 50 in two out of four charts with comparison to other species of Naja. The individual values from the intravenous chart: Naja melanoleuca Black forest cobra 0.289 and the intraperitoneal chart: Naja melanoleuca Black forest cobra 0.324 are right there with the rest of the cobras listed. I do not believe that age or elapid experience have anything to do with this question. In two separate threads now, "Steff" has asked specifically about the toxicity of Forest Cobra venom. If there is a better site on the web that deals with this, I would certainly like to see the link posted. If there is someone who posts here, other than Dr. Fry who occasionally stops by, who does work on the toxicity of venoms and has information on Forest Cobra venom, that information also would be helpful. Other than that, no-one that routinely answers questions here has the expertise to qualitatively answer this question. R/ Karl

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by agkistrodude on April 12, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Stefanie, this website has some good info on venom toxicity. One is the page for the Forest cobra and the other is the home page. Hope this helps, take care, Marty http://www.toxinology.com/fusebox.cfm?fuseaction=main.snakes.display&id=SN0183 http://www.toxinology.com/fusebox.cfm?fuseaction=main.snakes.search

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by najasuphan on April 12, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
From the literature that I have read, Forest Cobras have a strong postsynaptic neurotoxic venom. I'm sure that their venom really needs to be looked at more in-depth. Also, I think that there is research underway that might split the several different color forms/localities of Forest Cobras into separate species. If/when that happens, then they will all need to be looked at individually. This is a little old,1995 to be exact, but this is straight from the "Handbook of Clinical Toxicology of Animal Venoms and Poisons." In addition, I have read bite stories which reported necrosis, however, this book says that their venom does not cause it. Either way, a bite is definitely life threatening, especially when you consider how much venom you would probably have injected. "This species is reclusive and reluctant to bite and scarcely more than a dozen cases of bites have been reported. In at least four there was no envenoming, but five died between one hour and three days after the bite. Symptoms include local swelling, tender regional nodes, giddiness, ptosis, slurring of speech, muscular spasms, dyspnoea, tremor of the extremities and fever." Hopefully this helps a little. -Jamie

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by puffadder7 on April 12, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
your right karl, bryan fry's site does have ld50 on forest cobra venom, i only looked in the subcutaneous not the intrvenous and intraperitoneal, arin

RE: to all the experts	Reply
by theemojohnm on April 12, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
"This species is reclusive and reluctant to bite..." WHAT?!!! YEAH RIGHT! Just curious... Who all agrees with the statement that forest cobras are RELUCTANT to bite? I assume that literature is stating their behavior in the wild. (And for that matter all snakes could be considered "reluctant to bite", as no snake wants to bite people). Every forest cobra I have ever worked with was a nightmare! Out of all cobras, I must say, Forest cobras are my LEAST favorite. They make me work too hard, LOL. Take Care, -John Mendrola

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