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Defense level verses propensity to eat in south ea
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by ChuckHurd on May 18, 2009
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Last night I feed my very sizeable collection of south eastern pit vipers. Of the 70 or so snakes that were offered food, only 2 did not eat. The two that refused are the two most defensive snakes in my collection. Both get into a defensive posture anytime anyone is in the room. Both strike anytime their tub is pulled from the rack and both fight being moved and run anytime they get the opportunity. On the surface one would think these two would be quick to attack anything placed in their tub, but that is not the case. My observations led me to believe that the more defensive my snakes are toward me, the less likely they are to feel secure enough to attack and eat prey items. The two in questions are both very large. One is a captive raised female western cottonmouth, east TX locality and the other is a one year captive male canebrake rattlesnake, northern AL locality. The cotton did not touch the mouse. I later removed it and gave it to my female FL cotton. The cane killed the rat, but did not eat. I removed it and gave it to my large female canebrake. Both of which made quick work of the extra food. I do not engage in any type of animal fighting, but I know people who do both rooster and dog fighting. Being ignorant to it, I assumed the best fighters would be the hardest for handlers to control, however, both tell me that if an animal is aggressive toward people, they are worthless fighters. I see a correlation here. If the fighters are concerned with the people around, they do not focus on the other animal. If the snake is concerned about the people around, it is less concerned about the food animal. Or, at least that is my contention with my south eastern pit vipers.
Has anyone noticed this trend in other species?
Chuck Hurd
www.ChuckHurd.com
Phone/text: 423.580.7513
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by Buzztail1 on May 18, 2009
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I am not sure about your hypothesis but I can tell you that with snakes that are that defensive, I generally give them a very tight-quarters hide box. Usually, it works to make them feel more secure and they become better feeders.
Good luck.
R/
Karl
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by ChuckHurd on May 18, 2009
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Thank you, but that isn’t the direction I was trying to go. I don’t want it to turn into a post about getting snakes to feed, I can get them to feed. I am just wanting to know if others are seeing similar behavior other species like cobras…ect. And opinions the defense verses feeding.
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by pictigaster1 on May 18, 2009
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I have had a few snakes that never settled down .they were wild cought and would not use a hide, or come right out if you intered the room to defend them selves.some ate at night in the dark,others had to be released.I have a viridis now who always just wants to kill and only sees me as the threat yet she eats only at night.She leaves her box any time I enter the room and always rattles.She is captive raised.
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by Cro on May 18, 2009
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Chuck, I think you have answered your own question. You stated "The two in questions are both very large," and you stated they are in a Rack System of some sort.
I would be willing to bet that if you put them in much larger cages, the behavior would change. Would be a interesting experiment to try.
If they start out being large snake in a small cage, they are bound to feel "cornered" and go into defense mode more readily, and as you stated, when in that mode, they do not care about eating.
Try them in a more comfortable cage where they can "stretch their legs" a bit, and see it they do not change the behavior.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by ChuckHurd on May 19, 2009
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Don’t think there is a correlation. All my FL and eastern cottons are bigger then this western, as they are a smaller sub-sp, and the other cottons are in the same rack and eat just fine. The cane is in the “big” rack. The buckets are the biggest made. The ones used to store away Christmas trees. I think they are something like 5 feet by 2.5 feet by 8 inches. He is a big snake, but he is still the smallest one in that rack of 7 total snakes. All my bigger canes and EDB’s feed just fine in the same size tub.
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by Cro on May 19, 2009
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Well, it just might be the nature of those two snakes to be grumpy.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by yoyoing on May 23, 2009
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Here is a direction to go (just for fun). If 68 out of 70 snakes ate, you probably try to keep them on the hungry side. Many snakes get comfortable and obese in captivity. Maybe the defensive snakes are retaining a propensity to maintain a wild-type physique. This would facilitate the flight half of the fight or flight response.
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by Cro on May 23, 2009
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Anytime 68 out of 70 snakes eat, you are doing good.
Snakes are individuals, and all have moods, and feelings, and times of the month they are busy, like when getting ready to shed.
The snakes that did not feed, probably would if they were put in a smaller dark box by themselves with a live hopper for a few days.
And, if they were put in a much larger cage, they also might eat.
It just takes some playing around with.
The idea of offering a live hopper to a snake that is used to eating much larger meals might sound strange, however, it does work. Just put the snake in a constriciife dark box, drop in a hopper, shut he lid, and leave the whole thing alone for a few days. Quite often the snake will eat the rodent.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Defense level verses propensity to eat in sout
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by ChuckHurd on May 26, 2009
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Due to my living situation, I have not had most of my snakes with me in almost 2 years. I have most of them back now, just a couple here and there that I need to make arrangements to pick up.
Anyway, we had both of these snakes feeding, along with the others….just using special considerations for them. So, when I moved everything back to my house, I set them up, just like all the others….hoping they would feed, just like all the others…but as you can see, they did not. The Wednesday after the first Sunday I fed, I added heavy flat hides to both snakes, keeping them in the same rack system. The following Sunday, I had 100% feeding day. That will probably the last till next spring. Now that all are on a normal feeding schedule, some will be in shed, ect.
But it seems with these two “man haters” extra maintenance is going to be needed to keep them going and healthy.
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