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Training Herps
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by earthguy on May 20, 2009
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Kudos to Scott Pfaff and his crew at Riverbanks ARC. The only thing I can add is maybe they should go back and read the article by G.O. Wiley about training king cobras. (I think it was published in Nature or Science)
:-)
http://www.wolo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4260:reptiles-doing-tricks-hidden-columbia-and-the-king-cobra&catid=56:hidden-columbia&Itemid=75
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RE: Training Herps
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by Cro on May 20, 2009
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Training alligators to come when called is not new.
30 years ago, Okefenokee Joe was able to call individual alligators at the Okefenokee Swamp Park.
Oscar, Suzie, and several other 'gators had learned to respond that way.
At the Atlanta Zoo, we had Aldabra Giant Tortoises that would come when you called them. They had learned that would usually produce a food treat.
Training a king cobra to go into a tube on command will probably be a lot more difficult, as that snake is smart enough to remember that it was medicated and messed with the last time it was tubed. It probably associates the tube with that experience, and is in no hurry to repeat it.
While the science behind all this is worth looking into - using reward based training on reptiles - I do not want to see zoos become circus acts where they think the animals need to perform to draw audiences.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Training Herps
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by earthguy on May 20, 2009
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This was a story on the behind the scenes stuff. I SERIOUSLY doubt that Scott would stoop to the circius act to attract business. I just thought that this was a good story because
1) it was herp related and done in a positive light
2) it demonstrated reptile intelligence to a group that normally doesn't get exposure to that
3) it shows that a little work on the front side training (and a better undertanding of your animals)can help in husbandry
4) Scott is a good herper - it's always good for one of our own to get a little good press
I now REALLY want a monitor lizard so that I can train it to climb up my leg :-)
*note to self - wear heavy duty pants when training monitor to climb up your leg :-)
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RE: Training Herps
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by Cro on May 20, 2009
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I agree that Scott would not do anything to create a circus act with the reptiles. Having a gator that comes when called is pretty cool, and can be good to help educate the public. I think Steve Irwin also had some crocks that would come when called. And having a monitor lizard that jumps on command could also be used in a educational way for kids. Those, I do not consider to be circus acts.
I do worry a bit about what National Geographic will do though. Far too many of the new shows they produce are full of Animal Planet like Anthropomorphism.
If the show they produce also includes parrots swaying to rap music, dancing dogs, dancing bears, trained elephants, and monkeys running around in clothes, etc, we somewhere cross the line where animal training becomes something quite different.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Training Herps
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by AquaHerp on May 20, 2009
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Scott is top-notch with his crocodilians.
Crocs actually train pretty well. I published an article some years ago on audio signal training for Caiman sclerops yacare. They would swim across the pool, climb out and walk down the tunnel and into a holding room on cue. Worked nearly every time (with the exception of breeding and nesting season), then iffy.
DH
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RE: Training Herps
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by Buzztail1 on May 20, 2009
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I train animals at work.
Most zoos are looking into training herps for reasons of safety or health.
If you can get crocodilians to do things on cue, you can separate them for feeding, medical treatments, etc.
If you can train a King Cobra to enter a tube without having to chase it around, that will certainly be much less stressful for the animal.
I have trained water snakes to come to the door of their large natural landscape enclosure to take food from tongs when offered. That saves me having to either chase them around their large enclosure just to offer food or leaving fish in the enclosure to start stinking. Seems like a win win to me.
Other cases come to mind.
Training Komodo Dragons to shift off exhibit so that food can be placed in their enclosure and fecal matter removed safely is an excellent example.
I think that in the big scheme of things, people automatically accept that you can train a mammal to do anything before they will even think about training possibilities with herps.
Circus acts - no.
But training herps to do things to make keeping them easier on both the keeper and the kept - yes.
R/
Karl
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RE: Training Herps
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by AquaHerp on May 20, 2009
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Operant conditioning.
Hey Karl, I actually saw a picture of you with the trained water snakes at a TAG meeting a couple years back. Questions is......can they do the hoop of fire?
DH
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RE: Training Herps
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by tigers9 on May 20, 2009
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YES, there is a difference between training and conditioning, aka, rewarding the natural behaviour with treats, behaviour they do on their own anyway.
My reptiles get active when I enter the room with food, get out of hiding boxes when they see me, it is not training, it is conditioning, repsonse to my presence = food. They make that association.
LOTS of circus aniamls are animals that like to jump naturally, u can not make clumsy tiger balance on the ball, u can nit make 400 putnd perosn with 100 meter sprint,...it has to be natural ability that is rewarded.
Teaching tiger follow english command sit, lay down, is training for example.
Z
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RE: Training Herps
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by tigers9 on May 20, 2009
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grrr, no spell check, I meant to say: u can not make 400 pound person win 100 meter sprint
<< u can nit make 400 putnd perosn with 100 meter sprint,...>>
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RE: Training Herps
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by Cro on May 20, 2009
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Most reptiles can be trained to some extent. The simple act of taking a scoop / cage cleaning spoon and presenting it to a venomous snake when you first open his cage, to tell him it is cleaning time, and not feeding time, actually works quite well.
The reinforcement of that technique will over time teach most of your snakes the difference of what opening the cage means.
Often, the snake who was moving forward anticipating food will recoil once they know it is cleaning time, and not feeding time.
Of course, you still should never trust the recoiled snake, or think he will not launch at you if you stick your hand in the cage to remove the water bowl !
And, there will always be some "dumb" snake, that are probably not capable of learning !
Something to try if you are not familiar with the technique though, as it works for a lot of snakes.
Best Regards
John Z
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