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Egyptian venomous snakes
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by Caroline on March 21, 2001
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Hi, I am as tudent at Wake Forest University and am about to begin a project studying the possible causes/aides in Cleopatra VII's death/suicide. I am looking for a complete list of venomous snakes and their effects (i.e. how fatal, how quickly does poison take effect) that would have been available to her in the Alexandria, Egypt area. I really appreciate any help. My email is : raasce0@wfu.edu. Thanks again, Caroline
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RE: Egyptian venomous snakes
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by CASCABELLADONNA on March 23, 2001
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AH-CLEOPATRA'S "ASP" SUICIDE LEGEND. PRETTY BALLSY WAY TO COMMIT SUICIDE IF YA ASK ME! I'M NOT SURE OF ALL THE SNAKES COMING FROM THAT AREA, BUT SINCE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THE TRUE FATAL CULPRIT HERE, I'LL TELL WHAT I'VE HEARD. I AM ALMOST POSITIVE THAT THE ACTUAL SNAKE THAT DID HER IN WAS AN EGYPTIAN COBRA. THINK I HEARD THAT FROM A LEADING HERPER ON T.V. SOMEWHERE. MAY NOT HELP YA THAT MUCH, BUT I THOUGHT I'D THROW WHAT I COULD TO YA.
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RE: Egyptian venomous snakes
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by GREGLONGHURST on March 23, 2001
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Caroline: The consensus opinion is that the culprit was the Egyptian cobra, Naja haje. The time between bite & death would depend on the amount of venom injected, & her physical state at the time of the bite. If she were inebriated , that may well have sped the process up a bit. Supposedly, she chose that method because the bite causes little pain. I cannot personally attest to that.
~~Greg~~
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RE: Egyptian venomous snakes
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by Buzztail1 on March 23, 2001
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Okay Caroline,
I typed all of this last night and lost it before I posted. I am trying one more time.
My reference is not new, so bear with me.
The following species of snakes are found in the area that was Egypt at the time of Cleopatra's suicide:
Naja haje - Egyptian Cobra
Naja nigricollis - Black Spitting Cobra
Walterinnesia aegyptia - Desert Blacksnake
Atractaspis engaddensis - Mole Viper
Cerastes cerastes - African Desert Horned Viper
Cerastes vipera - Desert Horned Viper
Echis carinatus - Saw-scaled Viper
Echis coloratus - Saw-scaled Viper ssp.
As to how they break down venomwise:
The Egyptian Cobra's venom is extremely toxic and, as I recently read in an account by Sherman Minton, not usually a painful wound.
The Spitting Cobra usually does not bite, but, rather spits its venom at the eyes and is therefore not a good choice for a fatal suicidal bite.
The Desert Blacksnake's venom is as toxic as the cobras' but is produced in much smaller quantity, again, not a good choice.
The Mole Viper produces a venom that causes painful swelling but not necessarily death, as Mark O'Shea showed us in his fateful TV episode in which he was envenomated by one of these and refused antivenin.
The Horned Vipers' venom is not highly toxic and is produced in small amounts.
Last but most certainly not least, the Saw-scaled Vipers have venom that is unusually toxic to humans and fatalities are known wherever it is found. However, the venom may take a relatively long time to kill and it is accompanied by both internal and external hemorrhaging of massive proportions- not pretty at all!
So, based on all of this data, I would have to put my money on the Egyptian Cobra.
My data source is "Poisonous Snakes of the World A Manual for use by U.S. Amphibious Forces" (NAVMED P-5099) 1965 Edition.
I hope this helps, Karl.
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RE: Egyptian venomous snakes
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by DerekK on April 3, 2001
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The Egyptian cobra, Naja Haje, was considerd a deity and specifically "THE" symbol of the Pharoh's power, which adorned their headresses. Cleopatra VII(?) was definitely a short lived "Pharoh", therefore, it would seem quite appropriate for this Queen/Pharoh to take her life via this particular deadly serpent..
Derek K.
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RE: Egyptian venomous snakes
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by Amys on February 12, 2005
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Hi,
I am doing a thesis on the whether it was in fact possible (Moreover, the validity) that Cleopatra vII was able to commit suicide by the egyptian Cobra.. and am searching for any sources/evidence/replies that may help me in assessing how a person may react when bitten by the Asp, the side-effects and how long they take to occur, how the body is left in appearance and any other information I would greatly appreciate.
My email address is; amysolowiej@yahoo.com.au
Thankyou
Amy
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