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RE: Buumese release program
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by Rob_Carmichael on January 18, 2010
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I wouldn't totally discount Scott's take on things. The question is whether a species as a whole can adapt to a new environment that at times falls outside of their tolerance range. Being an ectotherm, however, provides some benefits to coping with these challenges. Snakes are resourceful animals who will activate primordial instincts to cope with new environmental challenges and the challenge is whether these tropical pythons can survive. Being involved with a number of rescues, we have taken in burms from abandoned apartment buildings where they were almost frozen solid and once exposed to moderate temps, survived and showed no signs of pneumonia. I thought that SREL was leading this research? If so, I have some level of confidence in how they are running it. If folks feel that this study is full of bias, heck, start your own. I'm suspicious of the primary intentions of this project but it is a very interesting one if done properly and I would love to see one led by an independent group in a range that is similar to the one in SC.
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RE: Buumese release program
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by lanceheads on January 18, 2010
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I'm not discounting Scott's theory. He was comparing pythons to geckos. Sure, I would bet those Med Gecko's can survive in Virginia, and I am also sure they over winter in or under his house. The Gecko's are much smaller and can hide in tiny places to over winter.I have them at my house here in Arkansas, and it get's very cold here. The larger pythons would have a problem seeking cover there in Virginia. When the temps hit single digit's or even the teen's for an extended period in Virginia, Maryland, etc., I just don't think they could survive it for weeks on end.
How about Scott or anyone from that area put a Burmese outside in a pen and let it over-winter, and see if it can survive. Throw cover, boards, a doghouse, anything but a heat source out there and see if it survives. I'm betting it won't.
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RE: Buumese release program
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by venominme on January 18, 2010
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Burmese have been purchased by reptile noobs at local shows and pet shops all over the country. The current repeated theory is that the feral burms in the everglades have established from released pets that got too big for their owners. It would stand to reason that the same exasperation that would lead to releasing a burm in the everglades would afflict python owners in other areas equally. That there are no populations of Burmese anywhere else in the country would seem to indicate that burms released elsewhere have failed to survive. Because they can’t.
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RE: Buumese release program
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by venomrob on January 18, 2010
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That is one thing I have not thought about. But a VERY good point!!! Only people in florida have bought burmese and set them free? Yeah right. They are very popular in the pet trade but cannot survive in colder weather without "help". That would be a great argument from a legislative point of view.
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RE: Buumese release program
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by Cro on January 18, 2010
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In the 50 years that Burmese Pythons have been living in the Everglades, they have not spread across the county.
Just as the Iguana lizards living there have not done the same.
And just as the Cuban anole lizards have not spread across the country.
This whole debate is mindless drivel.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Buumese release program
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by CAISSACA on January 19, 2010
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How fast do you think a species would spread after the initial founding of the population? Pythons aren't going to jump on the nearest Greyhound and spread across the country in a year or two, they have to locomote there under their own steam
Burms have been found at times in the Glades for a number of years, sure, but the "take-off point", with enough specimens to allow them to find mates, thus permitting sustained breeding, and increasing numbers of encounters, is much more recent.
How fast are they going to spread? Well, unlike geckos or some anoles, they are unlikely to inadvertently be given a ride with garden waste and home furnishings, so they have to do it under their own steam. Based on that, I'd guess at a maximum range expansion rate of the order of a few miles a year. Compare that to the area over which they have been found in S. FL, and you will find that they have actually done about as well as can be expected.
As to the lack of populations based on released pets elsewhere - could be either due to chance or, more likely, due to the steadier supply of escapees from dealerships in S. FL, perhaps due to hurricanes. For any introduced population to flourish, you need to start reproduction and then retain a density sufficient to allow breeding. Some of that will be down to chance - a reproductive male and female finding each other. Obviously, that's fairly likely if a hurricane takes out a dealership and releases dozens or hundreds of the things, and fairly unlikely in other circumstances. However, given enough time, the improbable becomes virtually inevitable, and once reproduction has kicked off, the population has a good chance of growing. So the fears of other population foci being established elsewhere in the US is not all that misplaced.
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RE: Buumese release program
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by pictigaster1 on January 19, 2010
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Hay Doug I have a line on a nice pr but goats and cows are a little pricy so burms could be a nice supplament as well as illegal aliens .These chupa's really are not that picky.
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RE: Buumese release program
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by venomrob on January 19, 2010
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Ive wrote a couple comments on this subject but I have more Ive been thinking about. If you think about it the government probably wont ban these animals if they know they can make money on them. They could charge a fee for registration with your state and an annual permit to keep these snakes, I wouldnt have a problem doing that if thats what it takes to keep my reptiles. Plus microchipping (which is the responsible thing to do anyway, which I have done to all mine) but if you made people do that with registration it would cut down on the snakes being set free into the wild I think.
Robert
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