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RE: oversize snakes
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by tippy on August 7, 2010
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Swelling from water retention probably is a good explanation for what i saw, thanks, just curious though, we've seen the liger which appears to be larger than the normal lion or tiger, do you guys think this type of thing could happen in snakes?
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RE: oversize snakes
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by Cro on August 7, 2010
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Robert, the liger is an example of what is called "hybrid vigor" and it does produce an animal that is larger than both of the parents.
We see the same thing in mules, which are larger, and stronger than the horse / donkey cross that produces them.
The exact opposite could also happen though, and a hybrid cross could produce weak offspring.
I do not think that there are any clear examples of hybrid vigor being expressed in snakes, but, it is always a possibility.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: oversize snakes
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by tippy on August 13, 2010
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raymond l ditmars, curator of reptiles at new york zoological park in the 30's, in his book "snakes of the world, states that he personally measured two eastern diamondbacks about 8' 5" apiece, i'm assuming that because they were not recorded in a scientific journal that they are not recognized as documented.
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RE: oversize snakes
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by Cro on August 14, 2010
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Robert, the rattlesnakes you are talking about are well documented in print. It has nothing to do with whether it was published in a journal or not.
Klauber documented a Eastern Diamond-backed Rattlesnake of 8.01 feet, and Ditmars documented a Eastern Diamond-backed Rattlesnake of 8.25 feet. However, in both cases, the snakes were not preserved, and no photos exist, so those records have been called into question.
Part of that is because in Ditmars time, it was common to include the length of the rattle in the measurement of a snake. This could account for an additional 8 or 9 inches in length on a snake that had been in captivity and did not have broken off rattles.
The record by Klauber is more trustworthy.
You will find other older books stating lengths of up to 9 feet 11 inches, however, those are not documented, and were based on photos that someone received with no way to verify the length.
There is no doubt that an 8 foot eastern diamondback might have turned up from time to time, but, we have to remember that Ross Allen posted a reward for years and years for for a 8 foot Diamondback Rattlesnake, and never had one come in, although his Reptile Institute took in tens of thousands of these snakes. And, in all those years, only a couple of 7 foot diamond-backed rattlesnakes were brought in, and this was a time when most of Florida was wild, and had a very large population of these snakes.
There is no doubt that some diamondback rattlesnakes get into the 7 foot range, on very rare occasions. I have seen one Western Diamondback Rattlesnake in extreme south Texas that was that long, and I have seen one Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake in Fargo, Georgia that was that long. However, that has little to do with a supposed 10 foot rattlesnake that was taken to mall openings 25 years ago.
If such a snake existed, and if it was displayed in public, there would be a record of it. There would be photos, and perhaps the snake would have been preserved in someones freezer when it died. Without question, herpetologists would know about it, and would have driven miles to see it. Without actual proof, in the form of a preserved specimen, or, photos of the snake stretched out along a tape measure,any statement as to the size of a snake is almost meaningless, and falls into the category of folklore.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: oversize snakes
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by tippy on August 15, 2010
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thanks john, this is one of those weird things that i have ingrained in my mind that you would like to go back in time to get at the facts, the mall actually opened 38 years ago, and if i had the exact date, i would search through the newspaper to see if anyone wrote about the exhibit
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RE: oversize snakes
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by tatersnake on August 20, 2010
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anyone seen this crap?
http://yovia.com/blogs/davidappelman/2009/11/02/rattlesnake-found-in-st-augustine/
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RE: oversize snakes
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by Cro on August 21, 2010
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That photo first came out a year or two ago, and shows up on the web again and again.
The photo was taken with a wide angle lens, and the snake is not over 6 feet long.
Best Regards
John Z
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