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zoo folks...thoughts on a community venomous exhib
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by Rob_Carmichael on December 24, 2010
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I've always been a firm proponent of "one venomous snake per exhibit/cage". We now have a beautiful new Habitat Systems "Timber Rattlesnake" exhibit that measures 7 feet wide x 3 feet deep x 4 feet high complete with rock ledges on both sides leading up to light and heat. It's a knockout exhibit but with our three resident timbers residing in it, it sure seems like a lot of space. I'm now kicking around an idea of an exhibit that "celebrates snake alley" in the Shawnee National Forest region of southern Illinois and adding our resident southern copperhead and cottonnmouth to showcase the three venomous species of downstate IL. Anyone have experience with mixed venomous exhibits like this? Obviously, my concern is primarily management of multiple snakes under one roof so feeding time will be a bit of a pain but otherwise, I can't envision too many other issues. Thoughts from those who are in a public zoo setting (that's not meant to exclude private individuals but really looking for opinions from those who have been, or currently are, in a public setting)?
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RE: zoo folks...thoughts on a community venomous e
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by AquaHerp on December 24, 2010
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Rob-
Go with copperheads and black rat snakes. They do well together and management is pretty easy.
I would avoid the cottonmouths as they tend to be intolerant of cage mates and quick to bite. They are also notorious for cannibalism.
Sounds like a great exhibit.
Merry Christmas.
Will I see you next month and the garter snake conservation meeting?
DH
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RE: zoo folks...thoughts on a community venomous e
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by Buzztail1 on December 24, 2010
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Rob, I totally agree with Doug. Copperheads and Black Rat Snakes will make a great mix. One other possibility would be large specimens of Eastern Milk Snakes.
Either way, Cottonmouths do not make for good mixed exhibits, in my experience.
Good luck.
R/
Karl
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RE: zoo folks...thoughts on a community venomous e
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by theemojohnm on December 24, 2010
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I would also have to agree with the above suggestion. One of my all-time favorite exhibits for our native herps here in PA was a large enclosure that I constructed out of an old bar cooler (the type with the sliding glass doors) that housed both a yellow and black phase PA timber, several Northern Copperheads, and two large black rat snakes. The rocks and background were constructed to resemble the face of a mountainside den, and it functioned very well.
It was, by far, my most successful and 'hassle-free' mixed-species enclosure. I would just be sure to provide as many natural cage-furnishings as possible to suit each species need. (I've used smaller rock crevices for the contortrix which the timbers could not fit into, larger rock 'hides' for the timbers, and some high rocks and branches, forming 'shelves' for the rat snakes to climb on. Although, these three species really do seem to get along well, and do very well together). I used few small live pines (the type found in our northern mountains) to top it off, and it turned out very nice-looking and functional.
Thanks for reminding me, guys!
That is an enclosure that I need to get setup again, soon! I think it will make a great living room piece for when I move.
Take Care,
-John Mendrola
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by BobH on December 24, 2010
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If you had the right cottonmouth,copperheads and timbers, it sounds like it would look like the Pine Hill dens and a superb educational tool?
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RE: zoo folks...thoughts on a community venomous e
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by theemojohnm on December 24, 2010
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I also agree with Karl, in that Eastern Milk snakes do pretty well in mixed-species enclosures, too. I have done mixed enclosures with coppers and E. milk snakes (on a smaller scale) before too, with good results.
And I also agree that cottons, in my experience, tend to be rather intolerant, and very 'bitey' towards cage-mates, even other cottons. In a large, active cage, with several snakes all moving around together, I can see cottonmouths possibly becoming uneasy, and striking at the other cage inhabitants.
Sorry Rob, I missed the part about the 'public zoo setting' standpoint. I have not run any truly public exhibits, but the enclosures that I mentioned were viewed by the (limited) 'public' pretty frequently, and certainly would have functioned perfectly in a public, zoo setting. I do believe that Clyde Peeling's Reptiland used to have a large mixed species enclosure, very similar to mine (PA mountainside scene, also housing Timbers, Black Rats, and Copperheads).
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by snakeguy101 on December 24, 2010
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Huh, I seem to remember you saying that you were distinctly against mixed species exhibits not long ago.
"I would recommend keeping only one hot per cage"
-Rob_Carmicheal
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by Rob_Carmichael on December 24, 2010
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Re-read my original post Chris. It says that I have traditionally believed in single species exhibits but now have an opportunity to expand my exhibit horizons a bit. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, pipe it.
As far as the others, GREAT INFO and exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I'm leaning towards trying our big southern copperhead and our very large black ratsnake and start with that. Our cottonmouth, though not a large specimen, does get nervous easily and I can easily see inadvertent strikes towards cagemates although I would love to find a way to make it work.
Thanks guys and Happy Holidays...and Chris, that was an uncalled for remark.
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by AquaHerp on December 25, 2010
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Merry Christmas!
I think that the general consensus is to keep one snake per enclosure. Are there times when it’s appropriate to deviate? Sure. In educational settings where you are not simply displaying an animal, but rather demonstrating that animal as it interacts with an ecosystem, multi-species can better bring that message home. These are large exhibits with various levels and visual barriers. These are also exhibits that are monitored all day, every day. Both of these are rare in a home setting, or even a backup area.
Do I keep more than one snake per enclosure in a few of my exhibits? Sure do. In some cases, usually the same species. Do I have issues from time to time? Sure do. Yet, I also have a full –time staff to keep an eye out for trouble and two full-time veterinarians well-versed in herps for when things go wrong. A luxury most, almost all, people do not have at home; including myself.
Rob is right on the money with his thinking and I have no doubt has thought this through with all of the variables considered.
DH
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RE: zoo folks...thoughts on a community venomous e
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by Rob_Carmichael on December 25, 2010
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You nailed it on the head Doug!...and a very Merry Christmas to you too (I miss my Ibanez too if that makes you feel any better:-) I just put the southern copperhead and the black rat in the cage and the copperhead has found her little niche and the black rat looks spectacular hanging high off the floor of the exhibit. Only time will tell if this all works but for now, its a stunning exhibit.
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