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Taipan captive growth rate
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by Chance on January 7, 2004
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I was just curious if anyone on this site has had experience raising any of the taipans (genus Oxyuranus)? I have a pair of cbb '03 Papuan taipans (O. s. canni), and I acquired them back in early to mid Sept. They were around 20" or so at that time. They've had ravenous appetites the whole time, and are usually fed once every 4 to 5 days, though they are out cruising usually the day after they are fed. I try not to overfeed them though because I want their growth to be fairly natural. Most of the literature I've read on Oxyuranus says that individuals commonly reach nearly 2 meters in a year to a year and a half's time. I'll be lucky if these guys reach 4' in a year and a half, as right now I'd guestimate they are around 24" or so in length. I was just anticipating a bit quicker of a growth rate I suppose. Don't take this post the wrong way, I'm certainly not upset at this! The slower the better, as it gives a person more time to "get to know" his snakes and learn how they react and such. I was just wanting to get some feedback from others, probably the Australians on this site, that have kept either the Papuan or mainland taipans and see what they experienced as juvenile growth rates. Thanks for reading.
-Chance
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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Anonymous post on January 8, 2004
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Your growth rate sounds about right. Mine have reached about 4.5 feet, its been 19 months since i aquired them. Granted mine are O.s.scuttelatus, however there shouldn't be much of a difference. Are these your first tai's? BE CAREFUL, im sure you know this, but these guys aren't cobras. They will put you in your grave faster than you can say thier latin classification. I feed mine every 4 days religiously. Which may or may not be a good thing, on every forth day i pray to all the gods(jesus,buddah,muhammed). Mine have the worst feeding response i have ever encountered, they literally leap out of the rack sometimes. I would hate to get a feeding bite from one of my coastals. Certain Death. Anyway it seems they are progressing nicely, you are right, get as much time as you can to learn to read these animals.You will need it.
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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Anonymous post on January 8, 2004
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Chance, I'm shocked to hear that you're already keeping taipans. It wasn't even two years ago that you were posting about getting into hots, and now you're keeping taipans?? You love to present yourself as an experienced keeper, when you're really just a newbie who has taipans. You always buy stuff, keep it for a few months, then sell it and act like you have all the experience. Your low level of experience is obvious and barely qualifies for those eastern kings that you used to keep. You just gotta love 21-yr old kids that keep a bunch of hots in aquarium tanks. And BTW, growth rates depend on several factors with ANY species, taipans included. Taipan growth rates CAN be extraordinary if they are fed and maintained accordingly. Otherwise, they are just a tad faster than most large Elapids.
G'day
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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by stopgetinpopped on January 8, 2004
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1st anonymous,
Do you live in the u.s if so what sex ratio coastals do you have. Any females. I have 4.0 adults. I have a line on a number of others, but this may be 6 months or more away.
I'm always interested in those that keep these as well, drop me a line if you would.
Chance, You've had the animals since sept. and they have grown 4 inches? is that the way I read it?
They can grow to 6 feet in a year, but thats like raising a baby burm to 10 or 11 feet in a year, it can be done, however it's best if you don't.
I have always fed baby taipans on a Monday and thurs schedule. they crap out the majority of a food item in less than 24 hours. If you continue to enlarge the food item slightly, to give him some stretch that seems to have a lot to do with the growth rate of many snakes.
terry
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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by Chance on January 8, 2004
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Anonymous #1 - thanks for the great information. I assume you are in Australia to be working with mainland coastals, though I could certainly be wrong. I know of a few people in the US that are bound and determined to get mainland taipans over here, and at least one zoological park that has them, but no private keepers that do. As far as the deadliness of these snakes, trust me, that's very well understood. My Papuans are either right on par with your mainland coastals (according to Dr. Bryan Fry) or slightly ahead of them (according to Paul Masci and Philip Kendall). Whatever they are, they warrant respect. It's good to hear that you fed yours every 4 days. That's about the same schedule I feed mine, though probably not as strict, and like I said in my original post, they are almost invariably cruising around the day after looking for a new feed. These are not my first taipans, I had a w.c. adult male back in earlier '03. He was around 7' and in prime condition, however he succombed most likely to a parasite load. Because of that rather large hole in my pocketbook, I decided to go with cbb if I ever got any again, and a couple cbb babies just happened to pop up. As for feeding responce, the adult male I had was pretty mild. I would just place the f/t or pk rat directly in front of his hide and he would take it when I left. These little guys, however, are showing more and more bravado each time. They used to just moderately make a go at the pink, but now they're giving me reason to consider buying hemos slightly longer than 18". I've had them on more than one occasion look up out of their hides, then come upward jaws snapping when they see the hemos lowering in the food. Anyway, thanks again for the great information.
Anonymous #2 - first off I'm not surprised you posted that crap as anonymous. Anyway, yes it was around two years ago that I intensively began keeping venomous and began building up a collection, but it was a few years before that that I began to wild collect them and temporarily keep them. Each keeper progresses at his/her own pace. I've handled adult black mambas, adult green mambas, an adult taipan, adult boomslangs and the babies we recently produced, and large adult rattlesnakes many times with no incidents. Not to mention the countless species of Naja and other cobra-like elapids. Taipans have be the most extraordinary, awesome species of snake that has captured my attention from the time I can remember ever reading anything about venomous snakes. I don't see keeping as a step ladder with taipans or other large elapids being up at the top. I see it as a personal experience where one can keep whatever snakes he/she feels comfortable with and wishes to keep. To be honest, I'm much more comfortable handling my juvenile taipans than juvenile copperheads and cottonmouths (the taipans aren't as inclined to slip off a hook so easily, or give you a surprise attempted strike), and I was more comfrotable handling my large taipan I had earlier in '03 than I was handling any large Crotalus or even Agkistrodon. Elapids just don't have the same capabilities of the pit vipers. Sure some can be scary as hell (i.e. a large angry black mamba, forest cobra, etc), but you almost have to let them get that way. If you're relaxed around the snake, almost any keeper can tell you that the snake will be more relaxed around you. So yes, I am keeping taipans, and I guess in a way, it's where I was headed when I started in the first place. I just wanted to be sure I could handle large, difficult elapids first, and I can. As for the eastern kings, I don't know where you pulled that info from, but I've actually never kept them.
Stopgetinpopped - First off, good name if it means what I interpret it as meaning. Like I said in my initial post, I'm not trying to speed up the growth of these little demons by any means. I was just curious what other real keepers had experienced as far as growth rates from their captive taipans. You can read as much stuff in a book as you want, but in actuality it's the hands-on stuff that's more helpful (to me anyway). I'm not trying to get them to 2m in one year, it just seemed that most of the literature I had read on them referred to this as being a very easy feat for the two larger species of Oxyuranus. I guess I was just surprised, and pleasantly I might add, that mine were growing rather slowly. But again, I think that's great, because it both gives me more time to get to know their individual personalities better and to try to calm the feeding responce a bit. Do you have mainland coastals? I just assume you live in the US, so I ask because I know it's very difficult to get any mainland Australian elapids in this country. That'd be very interesting if you do, and I certainly hope you can find some females for all those lonely males, lol. Best of luck to you.
-Chance
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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by tommyboy on January 8, 2004
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First off I would like to say Chance is not a "kid" who keeps in aquariums. He is a mature young man who has a passion about the animals he keeps. He may not have 20 years exp but he is very professional in how he keeps and handles his animals. Just because it takes some many years before they feel comfortable handling deadly elapids doesnt mean that time frame is set in stone for everyone. I've met people with much more exp that were complete jacka*** in their husbandry and handling techniques. He is an asset to the reptile community. Oh, not only do I actually know the guy first hand but I will even sign my post!
Tom Eason
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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Anonymous post on January 8, 2004
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Chance - So let me get this straight: You claim that your experience has progressed in two years further than everyone else's does in 5+ years??? Theres a reason why cobras, mambas, and taipans should be kept by only the most experienced keepers. The problems that you have always posted about in the last 24 months have been extremely basic, and should not be an issue with someone who is even thinking about keeping hots, much less taipans. But since you claim to be such a fast learner and so professional, you must have everything all worked out. So, what antivenin are you relying on? Surely you keep your own, we wouldn't want to rely on a zoo, right?? What kinf of housing do you use for your snakes? Professional hot keepers would of course use special cages only, not the freakin' glass tanks that the little kid from the pet store keeps his ball pythons in. I'm sure that you are excited about your snakes, and I'm sure that there are worse cases than you out there, but its shocking that kids like you are getting snakes that are worlds beyond their experience, and become a liability to everyone else.
Tommyboy - You're right about him not having 20 years experience, he's barely 20 years old. His experience is more like 20+ months. I'm sure you respect him, but many people who are online have seen his little "rise from the kingsnakes" to taipans, and can only shake their heads.
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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by CFoley on January 9, 2004
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Ok...enough with the BS.
Anonymous, is there a reason that you can not display your real name? Or maybe its because you have even less experience and dont want us to know who you are? I could be wrong about that, but even if you do, I highly doubt with your stuck-up attitude that you deserve to keep snakes in general ever. PERIOD.
There is no reason to come at anyone like that for any reason. This hobby, and this website is made to guide people, not make them look stupid. The more you rant and rave about how "stupid" Chance is, the more stupid you look. This hobby needs no people like you. If it were my decision, Id take every snake you own, give them away to good homes, and then beat you with a burning stick.
Now, until you can stop being a sissy, and come out with your real name, I think we would all appreciate it that you no longer respond.
Chris Foley
...yeah, I can make offensive statements and show my real name....
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RE: Taipan captive growth rate
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Anonymous post on January 9, 2004
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LOL, thats cute. Yes, there is a very big reason to come at people like that. If we encourage that sort of behavior, then soon newbies will get the idea that they too can get away with jumping right into taipans. After all, if this kid can do it, then so can just about anyone else. If this mentality is welcome, then why even offer advice to newbies who want to learn about the responsible way of getting into hots? Hey, just get whatever you like. Want mambas? Go for it. Want to start off with cobras? Have at it, bud. Afterall, everyone moves at their own speed. If you feel comfortable handling taipans, than why not. Free country, right? Yes, free until people start getting way over their head and mess it up for everyone else. If people start off with cobras, then they are irresponsible. If they don't even know how to get baby elapids started, then they are unqualified. But if they start keeping taipans within 24 months of keeping hots, then they are just naive, unprepared, and just plain reckless! There is no excuse for that. If he got nailed tomorrow, and people would start asking questions and find out that he has been keeping hots for a mere 2 years and was now keeping pans, then the hobby would once again be crucified. If you think that that type of behavior is fine, then thats you. Not me. I strongly disagree, and many others do too.
And no, I will not stop responding, will not resort to name calling, and will still be anonymous! Can't handle criticism? Too bad, because this forum is made for discussions, and it sure isn't based on a "praise only" environment. If you don't like what I'm writing, then don't read it.
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