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Speak Out: Permitting System

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ranger1100ky on 2004-06-05
It's simply NOT going to fly...

The local, county, and state levels, are where legislative issues, such as 'animal control matters' are decided.

The BEST anyone could EVER hope for... is to get together with their state department of fish and wildlife representatives... and draft a state legislative bill, that would specifically legalize the keeping of venomous snakes by persons who meet a SPECIFIC AND MEASURABLE STANDARD of training, care, equipment, enclosures, procedures, etc... WITH a means built in, to make it ILLEGAL for someone to house venomous animals WITHOUT a permit and legitimate PROOF of training, AND the ability to effectively care for the animals safely.

In short... you'd have to catch lightning in a bottle... by getting a legislator to introduce the bill to the state assembly... PLUS getting the support of fish and wildlife department officials to 'sponsor' this 'bill'...

Then you'd have to get it passed... which, thanks to a number of incredible jackasses that have had accidents or allowed their animals to threaten the public safety... probably will NOT happen.

Associations, such as this one... MAY be able to help get such a bill passed... but before that can happen... the associaton will have to develop standards of training, safety and care, and enforce those standards as a requirment of membership IN the association... before it will have a leg to stand on in arguing for the legislation.

Think of it this way...

Any idiot can buy a snake online... What they cannot buy, is common sense...

Anyone can contain a snake, or other wild animal... but... it takes a highly trained, hyper-responsible individual, to safely keep, raise, breed, and otherwise care for, an animal who is designed to live on its own without human intervention or interaction.

The power to achieve 'permitted' keeper status in the legal world... resides with associations of exceptionally responsible keepers, that are held to a standard that is HIGHER than what the general public would expect. If the association doesn't hold keepers in it, to higher standards than the public would ask for...

Then it will have NO power, to effect the proposing, drafting, submission of, or passing of, legislation that would truly benefit not only the herpteculture community, but the general public at large.

That's the pity... because I think a lot of good things could come, for humans and snakes alike... if we could somehow manage to get something like this off the ground...

Things like, 'accessible public education' by trained keepers... 'accessible and sensible training' for fire, EMS, police and animal control services, on the snakes. (A snake emergency, or nuisance reptile call, in most ares of this country, often result in death for the snake, regardless of whether it's 'in the wild' or 'a captive animal'.)

captiveherps on 2004-06-04
Fight any government action to initiate any permit system. It will only cause problems for people keeping hot herps in the future.This can lead to refusing to issue permits, or laws banning certain types of snake, also provides a nice list for any agency to round up whatever they ban. I could support federal regs on proper husbandry, like minimum cage requirements. I have seen people keep snakes in cages that they can and have gotten out of.

Marty1st on 2004-05-31
"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society."[Hillary Clinton,1993]
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans." [President Bill Clinton, 'USA Today' March 11, 1993: page 2A]
Need more be said? How soon people forget, keep the feds out.

91C2 on 2004-05-29
After reading all the replies, we have, within ourslefs, shown that there is no clear cut decision. Some yes, some no. Some have more faith in our gov't than others.
We are the keepers and we can't decide, how will anyone else decide whether we can keep them or not. I am myself, as you are yourselves. I make my choice, you make yours, and life goes on........
But, put the US gov't in it and we will have very vague laws that are open to interpetation by whomever is appointed to watch out for our best interests and well being.
No thanks. I can take care of myself just fine without gov't intervention.
State by state laws vary, as do county by county, city by city. We have to accept this is a matter of course.
Gov't intervention will only make matters worse. Can anyone name one thing the elected people have banned together and gotten right? No. The reason is because none of them know enough about a given topic to make an accurate assessment.
Do you think any of the elected ones keep hots? No, they don't. Do you want the misinformed people of our society deciding what is right for you? I don't. I know what is ok for me. No one else does, just myself.
No one said state laws make sense, either, but they are the laws where you live and you adapt to them.
Prime example, Flordia: What sense does it make to force people to wear seatbelts in cars and trucks, but a motorcyclist does not have to wear a helmet. Does this make sense?
The fact is, our gov't has intruded in our lives enough, we don't need them for that. The gov't was built to provide a way of protection of outside forces, not to tell us how to live our lives. Thjat is up to our local gov't.
If the feds would just go make to national security matters and back out of everything else, our freedoms would be restored. Until then, we are bound by the ones we elected and trusted.
At one time, the gov't listened to the people of the nation. But, they got too big and out of control. Look at us now.
Our gov't is just that: our gov't. They belong to us, not we to them. Enough is enough. Keep state laws and put our gov't back to sercurity matters.
But, even then, we should have the right to decide, not them.

cayoung0 on 2004-05-24
A national permitting system would be a big waste of time and money and should be left to the state legislators. Here in Canada we have seen how inefficient national registries are. This is the case with the Natioanl Gun Registry. Not really any different since either a Venomous snake could kill you as could a gun. As well anyone can follow rules and it has not stopped idiots from owning guns. The whole thing hs turned into one big boondoggle and was only supposed to cost 2$million and is well over 25$million dollars now and growing. My kids, kids, kids will be paying for this stupid thing. Leave it to the state and if they don't do anything about it then hope that everyone who keeps HOTS is responsible.

GY

Blake on 2004-05-24
I do not think they would revoke all of our permits cause since this is a free country that might raise some questions and questions are bad. How ever I do agree with the state laws and I think its just fine now. It could be better with a Natinal System, but it could also be worse. Its really everyones own choice as to what they think though.

pygmybait on 2004-05-23
Absolutely not! The federal government has its hands in everything. I am a big believer in states rights. Why do we even bother to vote for local government if all we ever do is look to the federal government for all of our answers? I would bet that if this issue ever got to the fed, they'd do everything in their power to revoke all of our permits and none of us would be able to keep anything.

Anonymous on 2004-05-21
My name is Craig Koeman I have never posted on this site,however,I am a frequent reader.I am also a lay-student of government.One thing in this country that greatly concerns me is the degree to which

oldsnakeman on 2004-05-20
in a perfect world this permit thing may work, but even with the biggest names, the most learned people in herpetology, pass or present, writing this thing, the leg. branch has NEVER let anything go pass them without their 2 cents being put in. If we can't get our own state leg. bodies to pass acceptable laws governing this how can we expect congress to do the same? work on your own state groups. If it's important to you( and i know it) you can find a way. there are people or information sources to help you be a "squeaky wheel. It's a lot easier than the feds!

Blake on 2004-05-19
Yeah,
Karl has a great point. I think a national system could work if we had the right people to set it up. Herpers could vocies ideas and opinions, as well as the public. Though, do you think the goverment would set everyone down and listen to both sides? I'm not totally sure. How long would it take to get it up? What would be the laws while they were getting it set up? I'm quiet happy with the way things are as they are ( Probably because I'm moving to Texas where I can keep hots ). Its all pretty messed up right now. I don't think they would be bothering about stuff like this. Agian as Randy pointed out, where would the money to fund something like this come from?

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