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Speak Out: Permitting System

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oldsnakeman on 2004-05-17
back while clinton was in office a lady who admired hillary found a bald eagle feather at a zoo. she made one of those "dream catcher web things" with the feather woven into it and sent it to ms clinton. THE NEXT DAY the fbi was at her door, she was arrested, and finally pardoned by clinton as his term ended. Despite your feeling of either party this just shows what could happen. i dont see a herp swat team being formed but having been involved with the fed. gov't a little i really feel the confusion with the varying state laws and regulations is a picnic compared to the nightmare of a fed permit system. My best plan here in south carolina is to stay on top of our state and local laws and do the best i can to see they stay "senseable"

copperheadkid15 on 2004-05-16
Buzztail1 has a great point. Imagine this they pass a wonderful law and it WORKS!! It will mean that we will have to either pay MORE taxis to form this “unit” of highly trained officers to go around and bust people, if the don’t raise taxis then they will take money away from other things. Like schools (imagine a southern high school with out a football team, the road would be in even worse shape, ect..

Ps. Even though my spelling is horrible I can think politically

Randy

Buzztail1 on 2004-05-16
I may die laughing!
Every G-man in the state kicking in your door - for venomous snakes?
Oh My God.
Let's just put this in perspective a little.
Already there are large parts of the country where keeping venomous snakes is illegal.
And yet, hundreds (maybe thousands) of people are keeping illegally. Every few years or so, they get too comfortable with breaking the law and the police/federal officers make a bust.
In the mean time, there are thousands who are keeping legally (within their locally approved system) who never see an officer at all.
Ever wonder how many people drive without a driving license? Are the feds out there scouring the streets? Of course not!
Think of the man power involved. Do you really think the federal government has the money to field agents to come "kick in the doors" of illegal keepers? They barely manage to cut back on the smugglers at the airports and ports of entry that they already know of.
I think a federal permitting system might be a good idea, if we could get some responsible, well-known keepers involved in setting it up.
Karl

91C2 on 2004-05-16
There are two sides to view this from.
National system? The feds screw up everything. If there were a national system, who would oversee all of the homes, applications, permit renewals, etc? What if the majority of a given area ban together and decide they don't want venomous kept in their town?

On the other hand, if there were a national; system, and they actually got something right, state to transport and sales would do wonders for us.
Another thing to consider: What if you had something you were not permitted for or exceed a predetirmined number for you to house? It would be a federal offense.
Good point, though, is that the scammers would face face federal offenses for their actions, too.

We know our government all too well. If they suspected someone of having something illegal, Federal Marshalls would bust down your door and the ATF goof offs would either shoot you and everyone in your house, or, smoke you out by burning your house down.
Imagine being inside your home where there are no animals at all, because you don't keep, sell, buy, trade in the hobby. Your door is busted open and every G-Man in the state rips your hopuse apart looking for what you don't have.
No thanks. A federal guideline is needed and could be used without federal interference, supported by the local police, of course

Blake on 2004-05-15
Sorry, I diddn't mean to post as anonymous. Sorry agian

Blake

Anonymous on 2004-05-15
Yeah that is something that probably gets over-looked a lot. It could get a lot worse for some areas, but it could also get better in some others. I remember someone telling about a law in Wisconsin. He said " In order for you to keep anysnake, it has to be fitted with a radio tracker for incase it gets lose ". Weather or not this is true I'm sure their are a few areas that have some silly laws that say you can't do this or that. One law that I am aposed to is the on here in stillwater. You are not allowed venomous in side city limits. Agian if there was a natinal law it could be worse or better, but we just don't know until we try, but if we try it may turn out worse. So, it is really just a bundle of pros and cons and do this and do thats. Personly I'm pretty happy with the way things are now, but thats just me.

biff on 2004-05-15
Unfortunately, Agkistrodude & Oldsnakeman have hit the nail on the head.

agkistrodude on 2004-05-14
With the exception of the military, the federal government has NEVER done anything well, hell, they couldn't even run the post office. Look how screwed up the school systems have gotten.The less federal government in any aspect of our lives, the beter.If you think the venomous laws are screwed up now, let the feds have at it a week or two.Marty

oldsnakeman on 2004-05-14
Folks,
It has been my experence that when the federal goverment gets involved it never ends. Plus once the "law" is passed it is nearly impossible to change or remove. The VA/TN situation is one of those odd things that just happens. Truet me if a national permit system comes thru, unless it's perfect we will lose much more than we can ever gain.

psykoink on 2004-05-13
I agree with all of you in that with the always changing laws in each individual state, a national permit system would be a good idea. I live in New York, and some of the laws here are rediculous. I have a New York State Dept. of Environmental Conservation permit allowing me to keep venomous reptiles. However just because the State allows me to keep them does not mean the county I live in does. Its a bit odd that the State allows it but some Counties do not. Also, its not all that dificult to get a permit here in NY. When I applied for mine I was asked everything and everything you can think of, and then I was inspected 1 year after receiving my permit. Now all you have to do is apply, and you get one. No one checks, and no one care until you get hurt. Then you have them all taken away and they get destroyed. I know of a ton of people who possess a permit who should not. The problem with a national permit system is who will enforce it. The organizations in some states that are supposed to govern wildlife and those who own them do not care enough to do the right thing until someone has been hurt or killed. Its a shame. It seems as though venomous keepers will have to fight a greater fight than other reptile keepers. It is very hard to explain what it is about a very beautiful yet very deadly animal in the confines of ones home. The only ones that would understand are others who own them as well. Government officials do not care about what you keep, only what they can make from you to keep them. They only care about the old mighty dollar. If they could make a substantial amount of money through a permit system, they would pass it through Congress tomorrow. You have the right to own your own home, but you do not have the right to keep what you want in it. I know my neighbors know I have what I have, and they think I am crazy. They also understand that I take the safety of my family and the safety of others in my neighborhood into very close consideration. Unfortunatly there is always the one person who obtains a permit to be the cool kid on the block, and he/she gets hurt or someone who is in there home gets hurt and the rest of us suffer for it. I hate to be the downer here, but it will be unlikely that such a system will ever pass. Too many politics involved. There will be a day when we all may have to give up our love for these anaimals, and quite possibly all our reptiles, venomous or not. I will say this however, I have spent way to much time, effort, money, and years of my life devoted to caring for and raising what to me is some of the most facinating creatures in the world. I will be damned if anyone will come into my home that I pay taxes on and take my animals from me without some sort of a legal battle. Its time we stop allowing the people who hate these animals and government officials that we vote into office to tell us what is good for us. I think as mature adults and people of our own free mind and will should stand up and do what is neccessary to assure that our rights to live as a free society are not taken away. I read of a lot more people being mauled by dogs than being killed by reptiles. Just food for thought, but how about outlawing mans best friend. I bet a lot of people would stand up a scream bloody murder about that. Cute and cuddly can still kill to. Sorry about the rant. It just kills me how we are fighting for a free Iraq, and we keep missing the fact that our rights and freedoms are very much in jeopardy from being taken from us here. I read the paper, watch the news and live in this so called free nation, and I have seen many of these new laws affect me already. I once spoke to someone who said to me, what you think it is you have rights to do are not written as law, so be happy because those are privileges allowed to you and can be taken away. Its funny, but when those privileges are taken away I dont remember anyone asking me about it or telling me why. Thats a different story though.
Chris

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