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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by timberrattlesnake89 on October 12, 2004
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I love to learn. I feel that what I did was a lot better than other people. I more careful than any of you people think. I did know that gaboons can come back on themselves. Personally I just do not like it when I handle snakes the way I have seen many many other people do it. I almost always use tongs. The snake hardly rattled. I really don't much about state parks. I have seen many snakes brutally killed beacuse people go and kill them in the park. I was at the outscerts of the park and pretty much in the middle of nowwhere. There was no one around to see us at all. Everyone I have came in contact up there either hates snakes or just doesn't care. I don't bother anyone and they could care less what they do. If I knew that the photo would make such a contraversy I would of not even post it. If you see and other pictures they are all of me with tongs. I have worked with tons of racers than move a lot faster than a rattler and I have practiced my techniques. Well Lunch is up so I have to go to class.
Phillip
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by timberrattlesnake89 on October 12, 2004
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Ok,
I understand where everyone is coming from. I do enjoy people actully care about me. Jim I am sorry if I seemed upset. The snake was very healthy. That is why I wanted to work with it. I understand the criticiom. I just have to say that I am sorry. I have worked with many snakes. Most snakes are a lot more aggresive. I do apperciate you opinons. I respect them for what they are. You never did see some of the other photos. First I picked the snake up with my tongs and got him on some flat grounds. Then I took some pictures with me with the snake while using tongs. Then I decided to grab the tail of the snake while still using tongs. Then I picked up my hook you get the tail just before sticking him in the bag. I love snakes and never try to stress and harmed him in the process. It took only five minutes. Then we stuck him in a cage and he was happy. I see many people pin there heads down to bag them. Like what Carl Kauffeld did in Dutchess County, Ny and also in places in Pennsylvania. I did it with out causing him the most stress of all. Hey Jim you where saying that it would really stress him out. I personally think milking snakes stress them more out than just picking them up. He was one of the best looking snakes I have caught yet. Most of the time I do leave the snake where it is. I just have been wanting to catch a rattler so bad lately. I was so happy I finnally got to really work with a canebreak. He was defnately not aggressive like I would of thought. He only struk once and when I picked him up with my GG tongs. I have worked with moccasins, copperheads, and edbs. Most of them I would never try to tail. He just was not jumpy like some of the coppers I have worked with.
Im sorry if I offended anyone in anyway, hopefully this can end very soon,
Phillip
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by bush_viper17 on October 12, 2004
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Hey Phillip, I agree. Every time I post something, someone has a sarcastic remark. I bet if I was 30 or so noone would have anything to say. Its always, you cant do this, you cant do that. Actually we can do anything we want. I can handle animals which ever way I feel comfortable and cause the least stress. I learned by myself how to handle snakes. If anyone says that the way I do it is wrong then they are stupid. It works for me so how could it be wrong. Most of the time I do use a stick. I have a Midwest Standard hook but I never use it because I get tired of carrying it around all the time. I know the laws for state parks. Listen to this: When we were up there, there were 4 kids running on the rocks close to were we found the rattlesnake. They got stung by bees and then they left. I saw them playing on a rock where Ive caught about 4 rattlesnakes this summer. I go to the state park up the road because its close to my house and to keep an eye on the snakes. A trail runs right through the fort. The fort is a big stone formation that runs about 855 feet. Rattlesnakes and copperheads are always found here. Kids are always found running on the rocks too. So why would it be bad for us to move a rattlesnake just across the trail where someone want get bitten.
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by Phobos on October 12, 2004
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Jeremy:
Ya had to got there didn't ya? What you said about sarcasm is pure unadulterated BS. You never got admonished or jumped on till that free handling stunt.
At least Phillip kept his language civil during the discourse that followed.
Al
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by JRHarrison on October 12, 2004
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I am not mad at anyone just trying to give advice. I want all herpers to go to the next level of doing things safer.
I have trained over 50 wildlife managers,zoo and law enforcement officers how to handle snakes . None have been envenomated because they do not touch the snake only move it from cage to cage and use the right equipment.
When I started with herps there was no internet or many books. I learned from two of the best Dr Minton and Mike Goode. But I have adapted new techniques when I see that they are safe. I am always learning new things.
Unfortunely we have to extract venom for medical reasons. It is very stressful for the animal that is why we try to only use captive bred animals on the venom production line.
My statement on stress was able learning about the animals behavior and not handling just to be handling.
I have no hard feelings.
None of us knows everything but some of us know somethings.
Always keep an open mind.
Like I said before email or call.
Jim Harrison
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by bush_viper17 on October 12, 2004
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I didnt use foul language. Im just saying that on all of my posts, people have something sarcastic to say. One time I asked how to get my diamondback to eat and everyone said that I should have to ask questions like that and that Im not ready for a venomous snake. I posted about a good website. Some one saw a picture of me and a canebrake on there and I still get crap for it to this day. Everytime I do something that Im interested in, someone tells me that Im wrong or that I cant do something. I know I sound like a whiny kid, but Im sick of being told what to do and how to do it. Im so sick of it. I went herping and we found a rattlesnake. We hooked it. What is the deal. Seriously!!!! My God. Im thinkin about to quit herping after this season, and start playing guitar again. I started herping alot to take a break from the whole band thing and all I got was criticism. If anyone wants my snakes and turtles, email me at bush_viper17@yahoo.com. You can have them free if you pick them up. I will also sell all of my cages for 200 dollars. Enough to buy a Univox guitar.
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by Phobos on October 12, 2004
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Jeremy;
I did not refer to any foulness at this time. I was refering to the "superbeastreptile" thread on 9/15/04. Remember now?
Jeremy, we are only concerned with safe handling of venomous animals. We all praised you on your South Carolina thread on 10/9/04, what about that?
Best,
Al
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by Snakeman1982 on October 12, 2004
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I would just like to say that many academic herpetologists don't look highly on herpetologists who have been tagged by doing stupid stunts. I think we'll all agree that Harry Greene is one of the top snake biologists. He has been working with rattlesnakes and other pitvipers since well before I was thought of and he has never been bit.
I know a few other top notch pitviper guys who have never been bit and they look down on it as well.
If Jim Harrison has been bit due to venom extraction, it is accepted more than some one who is just playing around with rattlesnakes for fun or non-scientific research. Venom extraction is very dangerous and after milking so many snakes, it is only a matter of time before you get bit. So that is more expected than other branches of snake studies.
So there is a difference. Personally, I don't care who gets tagged or what they were doing when it happened. It has little affect on me what others do or how often they get bit. I have done tons of stupid acts myself, just like everyone else starting out, but managed to come out ok by playing the odds game. So don't think I am lecturing or whatever because I personally don't care. I just thought you might want to know how some others felt about bites since many seem like they might be headed towards getting degrees.
Robert
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RE: To Jim Harrison
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by roadkruzer on October 14, 2004
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Jeremy, I just sent you an e-mail. If you really feel the way you said you do about giving up herping and want to get rid of all your snakes then I'll take them off your hands and make sure they are properly housed or released. I will be in your area the last weekend of this month. It may already be too late in the year to release your wild caught snakes. They need time to become acclimated to the now cooler weather of the North Georgia mountains. If you do not want to care for them through the winter then give them to someone who will until they can be released this spring. I'll be waiting to hear from you! Also, not just to Jeremy but to everyone, if you take up a hobby such as herping, know what you are getting yourself into. "PET" snakes can live a long time. If you are not planning on caring for the snake for its entire life or unless you are doing ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH do not ever buy a snake or especially take one from the wild. Jeremy, I am not slamming you. Do not take offense to any thing I have said. I am merely trying to give you a helping hand.
Thanks, roadkruzer
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