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RE: The most toxic creature
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by Snakeman1982 on October 12, 2004
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An Irukandji is worse than the Box jellyfish. Drop per drop means you better look for the small things that can kill you.
Actually, possibly the most toxic organism would probably be from the castor bean plant. It is where ricin comes from. It takes about 1/2 milligram of ricin to kill an adult person.
Robert
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RE: The most toxic creature
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by BGF on October 13, 2004
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I would say that the box jellyfish is far from the most toxic creature. It certainly has more potential killing power than many but even then the inland taipan would still be able to pump in more lethal doses.
Its hard to compare absolutely drop for drop for the simple reason that the molecules vary tremendously in size. Lets say animal A has venom where the molecules are the same potency as those found in the venom of animal B. However, animal A's toxins are 4 times smaller. So in a milligram of venom, it will have four times as many molecules and therefore it will appear to be four times as potent. This is exactly the case when comparing cone snails (toxins typically 2-3 kDa) and death adders (6-8 kDa) or better yet, taipans (6-200 kDa). It gets even cuter when the blue ringed octopus is thrown in or poison dart frogs where in both cases the toxins are very small organic molecules (100-400 daltons or 0.1 - 0.4 kDa). So its a case of apples vs oranges.
At a sheer molecular level, however, Dendrobates terribilis has the most potent toxins, with batrachotoxin being 200 times more potent than strychnine. However, the frogs don't produce the toxins themselves, they harvest it from their insect diet (which is why captive bred animals are non-toxic), similarly the blue-ringed octopus doesn't produce its own toxins, symbiotic bacterial in the salivary glands do that for it.
For the animals that produce their own toxins, on a molecular level the cone snail toxins are more potent than comparative snake toxins. So, not only are they more toxic but they can fit more into a milligram dry weight. The box jellyfish is certainly a very toxic animal but the amount of venom injected by three meters of tentacles (and they are pretty thick tentacles loaded with stinging cells) would have to be a couple milligrams at least. This is in comparison to the inland taipan which only takes a milligram to kill. Funnel web spiders are also very very toxic, with 0.5 milligram being enough to kill. The toxins are pretty small on average so accounting for this they'd be on a molecular level on par with about the inland taipan (but via very different physiological processes). I would actualy rate the very tiny irukandji jellyfish as much more toxic than the box jellyfish, it is a tiny creature that doesn't inject huge amounts. Interesting, unlike other jellyfish it has stinging cells covering not just the tentacles but the bell as well. The bell is about the size of a pinky finger nail yet these are a lethal animal! I'd reckon they'll be shown to be much more toxic than any of the snakes, even accounting for differences in molecule size. The venom is being worked on right now and it will be interesting to see what the components actually are.
Don't believe everything you see or hear on TV. I can attest from having delt with lots of doco companies that they really don't care about getting the facts right! Just because its been stated empirically on tely that the box jelly is the most toxic animal, doesn't make it true. Sorta like the weapons of mass deception. ;-p
Cheers
Bryan
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RE: The most toxic creature
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by Snake17 on October 13, 2004
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So, up untill now we have 5 contenders for the title: Golden Poison dart Frog, Cone Snail(I thought it was cone shell), Ble-ring octopuss, Rough Skeened Newt and Box Jellyfish. I`ll come up with the sixt: has any one heard of the botulin bacteria(or something like that. I think that`s it`s english term)? It has the famous boutox toxin. This one, if it`s a valid contender may take the prize. Cheers.
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RE: The most toxic creature
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by Frawgg on October 13, 2004
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BGF, THANKS for the reply! I respect your knowledge tremendously.I knew this question was "loaded" with varying amounts of tangibles. (route of envenomation, molecular size of the toxins, quantity injected, etc...) I was aware of Dendrobates acquiring their toxin from a particular injested ant, but was unaware of the Blue-Ringed Octopus symbiotic bacterial in the salivary glands. Would you care to elaborate on that subject? I don't mean to pester you, but I am fascinated with venoms and you seem to have the broadest base of knowledge that I have crossed paths with. Also, do you have any toxicity data on Aspidelaps species? I can't find any reliable solid data anywhere. BGF, THANKS for your time!
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RE: The most toxic creature
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by tj on October 13, 2004
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I read somewhere, I can't remember if it was Guinness, but I'm pretty sure it was, that the box jellyfish holds the record for quickest death. I think it was a little less than 5 minutes. As far as botox goes, Clostridium botulinum, the spores are found in honey, and can be found in canned food. Although toxic, I wouldn't say that the spore forming bacteria is quite as toxic as some of the animals mentioned. If botox wasn't as diluted as it was, it would surely mean death if injected at full concentration, though.
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RE: The most toxic creature
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by Snake17 on October 13, 2004
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I don`t mean to be rude but I think you should have thanked everyone who replied to your post, not only BGF( no offense Bryan). Every one had good intentions and tried to give you a good answer. Regards.
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RE: The most toxic creature
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by BGF on October 13, 2004
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With the box jelly rapid deaths, this isn't due to to a direct action of the venom upon a physiological system but rather the person dieing of shock from the pain alone. The box jelly would certainly win hands down as the most painful envenomation. The stonefish would not be far behind.
As for the blue-ringed octopi salivary bacteria, if you do a search in google for this you'll get stacks of hits ;-)
Aspidelaps are generically elapid level toxic, the venom contains the usual mixture of three finger toxins and PLA2s that you'd expect to find in any elapid and people have died from the bites. It pretty much comes down to head size and how much venom they can inject. I'd treat them with the same level of caution as any other cobra with a similar sized head.
Cheers
Bryan
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RE: The most toxic creature
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by HotHerper1 on October 13, 2004
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I remember reading in a science book at USCS in Sacramento that the most toxic animal (at the time of its printing) was the Daddy Long Leg Spider. now I don't know if I agree or not, but the book stated that if the fangs were large enough to bite a human, you would be dead before you knew you were bitten.... sounds a little like a jurasic park line, but its what I read, this was a good 7 or 8 years ago, and the book was about 5 years old then, so who knows... could have been some quacks weird idea of a joke. if anyone can find anything on it, please share, I will continue looking after this post
ps, this isn't my view, just what I've read. my vote is for the Cone Snail or the blue ringed octopus
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