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RE: Reckless/criminal behavior
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by bush_viper17 on February 10, 2005
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It couldnt and didnt bite anyone of us. I was posing for the camera. I thought that it was the coolest thing ever. Its a king cobra, of course its cool. I wanted my picture made with that and I wanted it quick. I was dying to get my hands on it as soon as I saw it. Im glad I didnt post the picture of me freehandling it.......(laughs to himself)
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RE: Reckless/criminal behavior
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by JHarrison on February 10, 2005
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The purpose of the original posting was not to criticize the persons of bush_viper17 and timberrattlesnake, but to offer up the point that people who are not legally adults should not be handling venomous snakes. Jeremy, if you are now 18 then fine. You say you learned a lot, but it looks to us professionals like what you learned was poor technique. Also, you might consider your tone when posting.
Karl,
I agree wholeheartedly that personal attacks have no place on this forum. However, illegal (does either kid have a FL venomous permit?) and irresponsible behavior with these animals DOES deserve criticism if the intention of this forum is to help educate people about venomous snakes.
I can hardly express the outrage I feel that people would treat any venomous snake, let alone a king cobra, as a toy, something to hand around so everyone can get their picture. I also can hardly believe that the adults in this situation thought that letting these very young herpers handle this animal was a good idea. They set a terrible example, but we would be just as bad if we didn't speak up.
This one incident probably will not result in any laws. However, incidents like this are what add up to laws being passed. I've sat in on meetings where laws involving herps were passed, and pictures like this were used as examples of why all snake people are crazy. Fish and wildlife organizations and PETA do monitor sites like these- so we should all consider what we say carefully. Personally, I think we should try to portray ourselves as professionally as possible. That means teaching the young/new herpers properly. It doesn't matter what any of us did as kids- you are right that there was very little info or community out there. We didn't know. We were stupid. That doesn't mean what we did was right, nor does it mean that we should condone reckless behavior when we see it now.
Jim Harrison
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RE: Reckless/criminal behavior
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by bush_viper17 on February 10, 2005
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I seriously wasnt using it like a toy. I do respect you Jim, and I want to be respected also as a venomous snake handler. I just took the opportunity to work with such an amazing animal. I knew that I wouldnt see another king let alone have the opportunity to work with one for a long time. The guy that had the snake said that he has had it for something like 13 years. It was extremely calm and didnt even hood. I still was very cautious. I did get close to it, too close in some peoples opinion but I couldnt bring myself to pass up that opportunity. I guess I look at it different than most people. I seperate myself from all else around me and handle the snake. I know im not bullet proof but I think that I can handle almost any snake thrown my way. The only snakes that I would be nervous about is a bigger aggressive King cobra, a mamba or a snake larger than 15 feet. But hopefully Ill get many chances to work with and sharpen my skills with the animals I spend so much time with and care so much for. As for the coolness factor, I will admit, I did think that it was one of the coolest things Ive got to do. I did want my picture made so i can look at it proudly and say that Ive handled a highly venomous snake that is longer than I am but thats not why I held it.
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RE: Reckless/criminal behavior
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Anonymous post on February 10, 2005
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Is it cool or something to pose with a snake you know that you really shouldn't be handling? Jeremy again why do you feel like you need to freehandle. One day you WILL get bit freehandling! Dont be writing back "if you know what you are doing you wont thatis totaly BS. Philip, for someone wanting to be what you want to, why do you feel the need to rush it? You know as well as the rest of us that the cobra was way to much to handle. Did you feel cool? Have you heard the rule Never take you eye off the business end of a venomous snake? I know this is all harsh, but when I hear and see all of this I see the end of our hobby.
I dont want to lose it cause of some idiot wanting to freehandle or someone handling a snake they shouldn't be!!!
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RE: Reckless/criminal behavior
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by bush_viper17 on February 10, 2005
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You shouldnt drive a car 100 miles per hour but NASCAR is pretty popular. YOu shouldnt jump off of a cliff with a string connected to a tree but people skydive every day. You shouldnt be eating puffer fish, but people pay good money for that. You shouldnt handle venomous snakes but people are interested in snakes and do it. Everybody does there own thing. Somebody may hate something that the next person loves.
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RE: Reckless/criminal behavior
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by Phobos on February 10, 2005
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Be careful....Sighting established facts and using pictures as evidence could be seen as a personal attack.
I suppose Florida Prosecutors were accused of personal attacks when they established the facts they were presenting to the court during the trial of Ted Bundy.
God forbid someone points out one of the reasons the boat may be sinking.
Sarchasm is just one of the fine services I offer.
Al
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What's the Point (long and philosophical)
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by MattHarris on February 10, 2005
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Upon reading all the negativity and opinions of Jeremy's (and other's) free handling, though I never saw the picture, several thoughts have come to mind, in regards to the message that this conveys not only to other venomous keepers but to the public as well. While, I don't condone free handling, there are times when you can get away with it, BUT, its too risky to gamble doing it when you know eventually the odds will not be in your favor. Jeremy's justification for doing it, was that he wanted to experience working with a king cobra. While, many on this forum bashed him,
I can say, I understand where he's coming from. I've had the oppurtunity and fortune(as has Jim, Al and others) to travel to some exotic locales and to experience up close, some amazing snakes(and other fauna). Jeremy will get to do this in time as well. Having caught, some large lanceheads, gotten up close with spitters in Africa and observed eyelash vipers, etc. the whole purpose of this is the PURE experience. The only difference I see, is that I don't have the desire or necessity to have my photo taken with them to show how 'cool' or 'manly' I am handling them. The whole purpose of being up close to these animals, is simply and purely for the experience of those few minutes in a rain forest where you can be one-on-one with a large, wild viper. That's IT! To observe these creatures, out where they aren't disturbed and you aren't disturbed or lectured or legislated by the dregs of mainstream society (and in a place where most 'suits' would be too scared to even set foot) is the ultimate experience.
I can take it one step further, in that this is likely the purpose of humanity, to be able to experience everything we can about the natural world. If it's not, why are we as a species here on earth? To accumulate the greatest wealth? To overpopulate the world? TO pave paradise? not hardly!. Yeah, we all have our various day jobs, families, blah, blah, blah....but thats not the ultimate purpose why we're here. We're here to experience as much of the world as possible before we die. That doesn't mean doing something stupid just for the experience. As for Jeremy's point, I understand it, but I recall what my grandfather once told me back when I was in college. I went skydiving one weekend(simply because we were bored and I wanted to try it). Of course, I caught he!! from my parents when I got home, but my grandfather was the only one who thought what i did was pretty cool!!! Why? My grandfather served in the unit, which eventually became 101st Airborne(forget the actual story maybe Karl know the history of it) during WWII and was a paratrooper during the Normandy Invasion. He told me "It's pretty neat that you jumped out of a plane, but thats the dumbest thing to do unless you have a damn good reason like fighting for your country and are getting paid to do it!!!" Everytime I think bagging a terciopelo, is something worthy of a medal, I am humbled by the thought of paratroopers floating down with machine gun fire all around them.
We all want to be as close to these animals as possible, and experience them as close as we can(that's why we do what we do....and its the same reason why zookeepers do what they do, the AZA just makes them think they're better!) but to free handle these snakes just because it's a 'cool experience', with no justifiable purpose for doing so is moronic, and doesn't serve the cause one bit. It's also not going to earn you much respect when it comes to getting a job with a zoo or any other institution.
Some of you may get where I'm coming from, others may just not have a clue.....hopefully most of you will get my point.
MCH
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