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Recommend a pen
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by RxforVenom on February 19, 2005
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I have recently sealed the deal to aquire a new snake. (Yes its venomous, yes I have taken the percautions. It is a species I already have had enough bad experiances with to build up an immunity) (God likes me)(Not that I don't appreciate the concerns of the community, but eventually it just gets annoying)
Anyway I need to know if anyone would recomend a pen or aquarium suitable to contain a possibly 8' long snake. I am trying to see if there is anything out there that would make it worth my while to buy it, instead of building a pen myself.
Again I need to know if anyone would recomend a pen or aquarium suitable to contain an 8' long snake. Thank you
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RE: Recommend a pen
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by sceniccityreptiles on February 19, 2005
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http://www.venomousreptiles.org/classifieds/detail/12043
Not sure what you mean by developing an immunity. Research shows that reoccurring exposure to venom has the opposite effect. If you have been envenomated, you do not gain immunity you only have a greater chance of lethal anaphylaxis. If you are wanting immunity, you will have to follow in the footsteps of Haast, Hunter, and Bud. It will require a never ending schedule of venom injections. Anyway, I am not one to preach. There are the cages you need and you are probably not immune, so be careful.
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RE: Recommend a pen
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by Phobos on February 19, 2005
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Chuck is very right on this, you're just fooling yourself if you think a few exposures to snake venom will substitute for good technique and a great deal of caution. What may have happened is you are now sensitized to venom and anaphylactic shock will kill you faster than the venom it's self. You need to have an "epi-pen on hand along with benedryl you can gobble to keep you going till the paramedics can get there. Do you have antivenom for this 8 foot monster you plan to keep? What about other people you live with or near? Do they have this immunity too? I say NOT! However, you should stock A/V for them too in case this 8 footer makes a run for it.
Chucks suggestion of caging is also a good one. Don't even consider an aquarium, only professional level cages will do.
Maybe since you've had "Bad Experiences" with this species before, you should not keep one again. In this case "practice doesn't make you perfect", Just dead.
Diamond Butt Al
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RE: Recommend a pen
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by guttersnacks on February 19, 2005
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Yea, ditto. Heres more annoying community support and concern. If you truly did not want any unneccessary attention brought to yourself, you could have simply asked "I'm getting a snake that will max out at 8 feet. Can anyone recommend a good secure cage?" But instead, you brought to light the fact you've been bitten a few times, and this snake is one you've had run ins with before.
Maybe you should just rethink the whole thing and "unclose" your deal.
As far as cages are concerned, custom self made cages can be very affordable given the right tools and plans. Oversized retail reptile cages require no build time, but can cost a lot more.
Please, understand we're telling you this to help out the hobby, and we dont want to see your name in the headlines and helping to further more legislation against our hobby.
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RE: Recommend a pen
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by Phobos on February 19, 2005
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I just saw an ad for 8 foot + Indo King Cobras for sale on KS.com ....could these be the mystery snakes? Did you know their venom contains a siqnificant quantity of Cardio-toxins that does permenent damage your heart?
I thing you should change your user id to RXforDeath.
DBA
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RE: Recommend a pen
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by RedrumRattle on February 19, 2005
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The fact that this guy sounds like a dumbass taken into account, you all need to lighten up. Attitudes such as these are something that is driving people away from the hot hobby. (EVEN THOSE WHO COULD MAKE GOOD KEEPERS). Instead of spite(hate)ful remarks, you all could have simply answered his question. This hobby needs as many people as it can get if it is going to survive. I think our efforts need to concentrate a little more on turning the potentionally bad into good.
Now to you my friend RXforidiocy, you sound to me like you have no experiance with venomous animals. I don't know what your new murdermachiene is, but the fact he is 8 feet long limits the options. I have an 8ft EDB, and quickly realized a custom cage was the way to go. However he was NOT my first venomous pet. I work with venomous snakes at least 3 months out of every year, and I still started out with a copperhead. That my friend is what you need to do. Get a copperhead keep him, see how many times he bites you, and compare that to how many chances to be dead you've lived through. And don't think about immunity, I know 8 copperhead bits later (from working with them) and they still hurt like hell.
Genltemen, this is what we call a self-correcting problem. Dawrin will sort it out.
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by guttersnacks on February 19, 2005
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You've been bit by copperheads 8 times?? !! I think the Pot/Kettle euphimism applies here. I can say this because I've been bit zero times.
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RE: Recommend a pen
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by RedrumRattle on February 19, 2005
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And how many times have you had to remove one with no snake handling equipment available because the idiot who's job it was was not available? And it was going to be killed otherwise? (38) How many times have you found one in your sleeping bag (1). How many times have you stepped on one while walking through a trail? (2) How many times have you done any of these? 8 bites out of 41 encounters with wild snakes aint bad odds. And I would rather take a bite, and endure the pain then let a good animal die because someone is to going to kill it out of an irrational fear? Know a situation before you get on your soap box, lest someone knock you off with a tomato.
And here this guy says what I was trying to much better
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/76
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RE: Recommend a pen
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by RedrumRattle on February 19, 2005
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Okay perhaps that was a bit harsh of me, but the truth is most of my bites are the result of poor equipment, (or lack of equipment) combined with bad luck. (Stepping on them). Combined with incompetent assistance. However I did not take these chances with a potentially deadly animal, as our friend here seems to be doing. Again I apologize for snapping, herpers should endeavor to maintain peaceful relations with each other. Our hobby depends on it
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by Dadee on February 20, 2005
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Vincent,
I agree with what you have said, but with one adjustment. You mentioned, you've been bitten 8 times. Why not just say, "out of experience with getting bit...here's what I recommend". I notice you're a firearms instructor. Let's just say for a moment, that one of your students’ mentions in class he's shot himself several times. He could have just said he's shot himself before, can you teach me safety. How does the class perceive this individual? Will anyone want to be on the same range with this guy?
When I was doing rotations through all of the ER's in Fairfax County Virginia for paramedic training, I came across a FBI firearms instructor, who had shot his big toe with a 45. I shot his toe up with Lidocaine to numb him for the debrisment that ensued along with the sutures. While doing this, he told me this is the second time he had an accident of this sort. Hmmm, makes me wonder.
My adjustment I'm speaking of here, would be steer the individual with experience, but don't make light of the bad experience. If someone sees that they could get bit 8 times from a copperhead, perhaps it won't matter if they get tagged 4 times. But that fourth time might be his undoing, as Al pointed out anaphylaxis can set in quickly and you could be dead before even getting the visit from the medics. I don't mean to demean you in any way, but when you speak of "thinking before you speak", that also encompasses making light of bad situations and bad judgment calls as well.
Joshua wanted to know about cages and I think that Chuck steered him to the right type for his situation...an 8 foot anything. Al also said that an aquarium is WAY out of the question...I couldn't have said it any better. The only way to secure an aquarium that I know of, is with a Karl Betz special "aquarium crate". With that in mind, Joshua, take the advice from Chuck and go with the most securable.
Joshua, is this new 8 footer an elapid? Crotalis? Viper? Whatever, it is, make sure that you have the right equipment to handle them properly so as not to get into a bad situation. Hands can’t replace a good set of tongs, coupled with a hook. Take care and enjoy the hobby.
Matt
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