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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by stopgetinpopped on June 13, 2005
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because of the thousands of gaboons and rhinos that are imported into this country every year.
Do you think that each one of those goes home with a nice little antivenom take home kit?
How many venomous keepers do you know?
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by BWSmith on June 13, 2005
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OK, I just reread my post an let me clarify. When I refer to "half" (50%), factoring in those keepers that I am aware of and those that I am not. Since 90% of the keepers I know of are, what I consider, prepared, that equates to 10% of my number. I added a whopping 40% for those that I am not aware of. I think that is a fair number for both sides.
Having serum on hand is what I consider to be an extraordinary keeper, not a responsible one. A responsible one has proper housing, procedures and protocols. If AV were easier to obtain, then I am sure more keepers would have it on hand. I do not think you grasp how many venomous keepers there actually are. I know of almost 100 here in GA. And we can't even keep exotics. It is probably safe to double or triple that number adding in those that don't talk about it because of fear of persecution or banned animals. I, for one, would gladly drop $1,000-$2,000 to have AV on hand. I would not blink at $500 for an exotics permit. I gladly get inspected by DNR. I have even called them to remind them that they did not give me an inspection last year. Am I unique? Not nearly as you believe. And now that there is a book on responsible keeping of venomous species, I think that we will see more that would go to the extents that I do.
B W Smith
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by ALA_herp31 on June 13, 2005
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I truly think that passing this Law will have a very negative effect on all Keepers, even wealthy ones. The point here, is that most Keepers in our community could not even consider buying half the A/V required for a bite. I vew it as a form of Taxing out of business. Correct me if im wrong, but if a person cant afford the A/V required for the Snake at hand, this Law will completely take his ability to Keep away, wouldn’t you think so. Phillip, I see what you mean by investing in African Species. The A/V for those Species are reasonable, but if you factor in the possibility that our Native Species could be put under the Same Law, in dew time. It would disenfranchise, a lot of Venomous Keepers, such as those living in my home State of Alabama. We all know how dang high Crofab is, its like Liquid Gold. Imagine having to buy enough Crofab to Keep just 3 Snakes safely. That would be one Hell of a Bill, wouldn’t you think so? I guess I’ve done enough preaching for the day “LOL”. Seems this is a touchy subject for me, sorry if I seem a little annoyed ...............Be safe ya’ll, happy herping Wally
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by BWSmith on June 13, 2005
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"How many venomous keepers do you know"
I have probably spoken to a few hundred over the years. And safety is always my first discussion point. I have even compiled protocols for the few I met that did not have them.
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by stopgetinpopped on June 13, 2005
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Antivenom is not hard to obtain. It is just time consuming and requires some persistance. What pisses me off the most is that Jim H. is probably literally the first person that would help and give all the information nescessary to a private keeper to get the sera. It's not hard, just something most are too lazy to research the process. Actually, it used to be listed on this site too.
People are jumping Jim expressing concern for responsible keeping.
Venomous snakes is like having a car with no brakes.
Wally,
Crofab is very expensive and not very effective.
Bioclon is very effective for a far wider group of animals and is far less expensive. More expensive than SAIMR but still within reason for the person that truly wants to keep venomous.
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by BWSmith on June 13, 2005
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"Venomous snakes is like having a car with no brakes."
I am not sure what that is supposed to mean. That statement is riddled with connotations. Perhaps you should clarify.
"People are jumping Jim expressing concern for responsible keeping."
NO, he is being "jumped", as you put it, for supporting a BAN on exotic venomous and openly "commending" them for their “initiative”, while I condemn them for their ignorance. I support and encourage responsible keeping. However, he has long been supporter of private keeping of venomous, but when it comes to his home state, he supports a ban? He is a hypocrite, plain and simple.
B W Smith
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by stopgetinpopped on June 13, 2005
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Driving without brakes? riddled with connotations?
If you have no brakes and still choose to drive your ca. That does not make you a responsible car driver?
"Venomous snakes is like having a car with no brakes."
Hypocrite? why because he used the words "responsible and venomous keeping" in the same sentence?
It almost seems from this thread and others like it, that to use the two in the same sentence would make one a hypocrite.
Answer me this. WHY would you or anyone make it a bad thing to have a personal stock of serum? That is the issue behind that ;etter. I obviously would not speak for Jim, but that is EXACTLY what I read when I read his staement!
Basically, since everyone is relying on someone elses serum we support the ban.
The fact is Jims not the bad guy here. The keepers themselves are the bad guys! They are the ones supporting the bans because if they opposed it they would do the obvious to combat said bans??????????!
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by Phobos on June 14, 2005
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Just for the record, the current price for one vial of SAVP Poly is $75.00 USD.
I stand by what I've written on this forum for we've been down this road many times in the past year. Therefore, other than my above inputs I'm done commenting on this subject. I have better things to do with my time...and time is short for private venomous keepers.
Al
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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Anonymous post on June 14, 2005
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He makes antivenom right? If the bans pass, he will make more money, right?
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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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by BWSmith on June 14, 2005
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You seem to have a very poor opinion of private venomous keepers. The SHHS has always supported and encouraged responsible husbandry practices. No one seems to be condemning Jimmy for suggesting that an AV stock is a good idea. That is a no brainer. But since you seem to be missing the point rather efficiently, I will restate it in short words.
Ban is bad. Permit is good. Jim wants ban. Jim is bad.
All a ban will do is produce a black market and make criminals out of experienced and responsible keepers. How many will try to get AV then? If one gets bit, they are still going to get the AV. Wouldn't it make more sense to support responsible private husbandry? To help keepers get AV? Mentor on responsible husbandry? I think that many "professionals" forget how they began and the contributions of private exotic animal keepers. So yes, Jim Harrison is a hypocrite and a traitor.
B W Smith
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