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RE: Thanks Jim Harrison....
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Anonymous post on June 15, 2005
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To the people new and seasoned who are members in here should know by now that Phobos is always right, and everyone else is wrong. What gets my "blood Boiling" is when Phobos argues about anything. If you tell Al that the sun is out, he will argue that it is cloudy. My mom always said to never trust a single man who wears tube socks.
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RE:And another from me.......
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by atheris on June 15, 2005
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I absolutely agree with Chris Harper, Matt Harris, and BW Smith. Jim Harrison and KRZ's postion on supporting a ban is tantamount to treason in my opinion as well. I used to respect Jim, however, it seems that he has joined the elitist mentality that many "zoo" professionals succumb to.
I won't be visiting Jim's "zoo" in the future.
I am fully in agreement with having a permit system, however, as stated previously a ban will only outlaw those of us who ARE responsible and instantly turn us into outlaw criminals.
Mardi Snipes
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RE:And another from me.......
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by Mustangrde1 on June 15, 2005
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This is not a Antivenom thread or debate! It is a thread about what a "Well known and respected" Person condoned and supported. There were other options and as I have stated before WAS the chance to stand up and Be a voice for hot keepers and a spokesman for us. Jim damn well knows the Florida Permiting system has been in place for over 15 YEARS and works. Instead he appears to have forgotten he to was once a PRIVATE keeper. Now he has effectively destroyed anyone of the upcomming keepers from having the same chances he had, That is Hypocritical at very least.
As to the cost for Inspections. NO state would have a single officer to ONLY do inspections it would be a waiste of their valuable resources. An inspection would be "as is in the few states where permits are issued" by an officer in that region. It takes including drive time around 2 hours which based on a $50,OOO.OO salary come out to $48.00 OF THE OFFICERS TIME. Tack on another $24.00 for 1 hour of typing and mailing the permit and you still come in under $100.00.
I will even dive a little further. After the hurricanes last year I was checked twice and each visit took less than 10 minutes and my initial inspection took maybe 20 minutes tops. So it certainly does not take that long or that much time and money for an inspection. KY could have simply used almost word for word the FLVRL requirements and saved money and time trying to come up with one.
Permit's work and they insure the right to keep with proper training and inspections to insure compliance with the laws and regulations!
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RE:And another from me.......
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by Cro on June 15, 2005
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Scott says "KY could have simply used almost word for word the FLVRL requirements and saved money and time trying to come up with one." Did anyone here, and especially the folks who live in Kentucky, send them that information? Is there still time to get the info the the Kentucky Law Makers? I seem to remember asking the same question back when NC was considering restrictive laws. Did anyone send the NC folks copys of the working Florida rules? JohnZ
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RE:And another from me.......
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by Mustangrde1 on June 16, 2005
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I sent them a copy in my e-mail same copy I sent to NC AND NY. From my understanding KY did not accept in to concideration unfortunately any e-mails. You would think this day in technology and age that they would have as most people no longer use snail mail. I have read NC is concidering options and will be sending them a Hard copy of ALL the Florida captive wildlife laws. So to answer your question Yes it was sent but via e-mail which apparently they ignored.
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RE:And another from me too
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by sierra on June 16, 2005
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I will also agree with Chris, Al, Matt and Mardi and since I posted in another forum in response to someone trying to defend Mr. Harrison's actions, so I'll post it here as well.( copy and pasted)
Make no mistake about it, he effectively banned ALL responsible private keepers-PERIOD. You can't justify it....I could pass any exam to keep my herps and we have a membership antivenom bank here in Pa, thanks to Al (Phobos)....I would not even have that chance in KY-Thanks to Mr. Harrison. And if he has self endowed himself to police all keepers then maybe he should have set up a Ky antivenom bank with a paid membership like the one in Pa...Oh thats right! He is soooooo inconvienced by the rest of us he couldn't possibly do something positive!!!!!
There is NO mistake about it. A permit system would have made your points valid, under a ban they mean nothing and they are useless.
And I'm playing a little violin for poor Mr. Harrison who had to be "inconvenienced" with house calls....maybe he should find another field to get into...I can tell you that we and every serious herper has been involved with rescues or "come get this snake off my property" calls. And although its a pain in the butt, we arent whining about it or using it as an excuse to hurt every responsible keeper.
Up until His foolish rant, I had great respect for him. But to get respect you have to give it...and he totally disrespected all responsible keepers...I will never visit his facility and I will try and persuade every breeder and keeper I know not to sell to him.( and luckily I happen to know a few)
Your opening sentence-is way off--he did infact have a direct hand in passing the ban one that is against ALL keeers from his state--you dont get much more plain than that. A permit system would have allowed responsible keepers "those he doesnt mind" to keep their animals.
I do not know you, your right, and I wont speak for every one here, but as for me you will not drum up any sympathy him.
And you do not know me or my husband, heres the short version- a solid 18 years of non-native exotic venomous keeping with a collection averaging around 60 animals and as large as 150+ animals at times, No bites, no escapes, licensed by Fl for 10 of those years, inspections passed, no citations.
Permits---not bans. If Mr. Harrison didnt mind responsible keepers, as you say then he would have supported them.
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RE:And another from me too
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by ALA_herp31 on June 16, 2005
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Good on you sierra, I think that this situation has gotten way out of hand. It seems that people we think we can trust, are the ones that destroy what we adore, wouldn’t you agree? Yes this was treason, in its worst form.................Be safe ya’ll, happy herping Wally
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RE:And another from me.......
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by TCH_Zoological on June 16, 2005
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Mr. Harrison has "cut off his nose to spite his face" on this account. This hobby has exploded with interest and members in the past few years. And sadly like with any hobby there are a few that are good at it and more that are quite crappy.
He would have made a few good points if he had expressed a difference in keeping ablilties. However, Mr. Harrison has effectivly grouped "A and B Grade" hobbyist with those who in my opinion I do not consider to be true venomous keepers "C, D, and F".
I'm sorry but I know way to many "professonals" who got their start by keeping privately. For me to then respect those same "professionals'" when they turn around and speak out against the private sector is asking too much.
Taking away rights is the removal of freedom and Mr. Harrison clearly gave sensationalized hypothetical examples that suggested this loss of freedom. I don't care who the person is, those actions will NEVER recieve any respect from me.
I will never sell to him or visit his facility. I have lost total respect for the man. Experience and intelligence are not the only things that make a repectable man. He should have known that.
I agree with sierra, marty, chris h and others. I am very disappointed.
T.C.
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RE:And another from me.......
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by tommyboy on June 16, 2005
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I dont think that it is at all an accident that the folks talking about complete bans are those that benefit from people paying a fee to see these animals at their facilities.(whether they own them or simply work at them) It is for this reason that it our responsibility to boycott these facilities. Dont visit Jims facility. Dont watch any television programs he is involved in. Nothing. Call/write places like the zoos/serpentariums the keepers work at(such as the one Terry Phillips works for) and make it known that you simply will not support in any way an organization that works against you. The line has been drawn in the sand folks...what side do you stand on?
Tom Eason
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