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cane break rattlesnake
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by dsschless on June 22, 2005
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trying to find info on the venom of the canebreak rattlesnake and if there is any differnces between that and the venom of the timber rattlesnake? (i understand that the cane break is not recognized as a subspecies of the timber any more) but i have heard that there may be a difference in the venom of the two) also is the venom hemo or neuro or both?
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by Cro on June 22, 2005
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Stephan: You might want to start by searching the old posts under Canebrake. A good example would be http://www.venomousreptiles.org/forums/Experts/5854 JohnZ
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by timberrattlesnake89 on June 22, 2005
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The canebrake rattlesnake has both hemotoxcin and neurotoxcin. Also it has cytotoxcin. The most prevelent of all of these is hemotoxcin. There has been one report of a canebrake rattlesnake have 37% neurotoxcin and it was taken from Jasper County, SC. The canebrake rattlesnake is a lot more toxic than the Timber. It also has bigger venom sacs with more venom. The canebrake can cause a severe if not fatal bite, but on the other hand the timber is far less likely to cause a fatal bite.
Live and Let Live,
Phillip
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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Anonymous post on June 23, 2005
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Timber rattlesnake and Canebrake are the same thing. Crotalus horridus. No subspecies. They will "both" kill you just as quick. Just because one is darker does not mean that it is less potent. Crotalus horridus-Timber/Canebrake rattlesnake. Scientifically proven time and time again. People disagree and bring the subject up again and BOOM, they get proven wrong again. Come on people. Crotalus horridus. NO SUBSPECIES. SINGLE SPECIES WITH COLOR VARIATIONS. Just because it is lighter or darker in a certain part of its range does not make it a different subspecies. Just because they have found a few with different venom properties does not make it a different subspecies. My piss is yellow but my friends was clear, are we different species now?
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by Phobos on June 23, 2005
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Since we are here to learn my young friend let's try to get the spelling* & terminology correct.
Neurotoxin
Hemotoxin
Cytotoxin
"Venom Glands": A Sac is what holds your Testicals, which are Glands.
Wolfgang Wuster/Bryan Fry and others, authored papers regarding the venom composition differences within a species, not Horridus specifically but I would imagine their finding would be relevent to this issue too.
http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Publications.htm
* Keep in mind my spelling is not perfect either.
Cheers!
Al
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by timberrattlesnake89 on June 23, 2005
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It has been scientificlly proven that the some canebrake color phase has higher constitrations of venom than the timber color phase. I am sorry that you are such an idoit that you can not even post you name. Dr Gorden Schuette is supposed to come out with a paper soon saying that both the canebrake and the timber are subspecies.
Phillip
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by guttersnacks on June 23, 2005
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I would argue that by a generalization, the canebrakes found in S. Carolina or Georgia tend to be a little "hotter" or have a higher neuro content, and also have lighter coloration, but this is most likely just where 2 unrelated traits are evolving in a population. Im saying that a light colored Horridus which naturally occurred up the mountains of W. Virginia is not going to be "hotter" than the darker forms around it just because its lighter in color.
It's my understanding that there are some canes from an area referred to loosely as the the Hot Belt where some venomous snakes are a little more potent than their siblings from outside that area. This Hot Belt includes Georgia. Another example thats been thrown my way would be Red Pigmys being a tad hotter than a regular Carolina pigmy.
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by AquaHerp on June 23, 2005
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This is nothing new folks. Hell, Minton showed timbers had varing degrees of toxin from one ridge to the next in Indiana decades ago.
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by dsschless on June 23, 2005
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well, the canebreak that i have is very young, and had probably just competed his first shed just a day or two before i found him he is from richland county SC. (on Ft Jackson) I removed him from a training area where his live was and the well being of the soldiers in training were in jeopardy. I do have some photos of him and can send or post them if anyone cares to see. (ive had him about a week and already has a healthy appetite. he ate 2 pinkies the night i brought him home and ate another hopper today. (his coloration is fairly light as the previous post suggests)
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RE: cane break rattlesnake
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by agkistrodude on June 23, 2005
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Ahhh,the canebrake/timber discussion again.Whatever you want to call them is fine with me, just be careful with the little guy,even that small they can be hot as hell.It is true that the venom can vary greatly from different locations.I have 2 right now from Oglethorpe Co. GA,and have had many in the past.By far my favorite snake.
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