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Another hospital incompetence story
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by sceniccityreptiles on July 11, 2005
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A friend called me last night and told me he had been envenomiated. I was already on the road, so I went over to his apartment to access the damage. He had took a bite on the middle knuckle of the left index figure. I marked off the bite, then marked and timed the pain and swelling line. When the swelling made it to the wriest, he decided he wanted to go to the ER. I took him to Memorial in Chattanooga, TN, which is where I go with mine. Up until last night, I had always been impressed with this operation. The ER was backed up and they took probably a half hour to triage. Since this was a minimal envenomation I didn’t say too much. Had we been there with a cobra or EDB bite, I would have kicked the door in and carried him to the back. So, after a half hour or so wait, they took him in and got his story and insurance info. The attendant tells him to go back out and wait, they will get to him asap. She then says, “Dr Champion says not to worry copperhead bites are not fatal.” The Dr made this diagnosis without even looking at him. For all she knew, he could have been in the middle of an anaphylactic reaction. I asked the lady to inform Dr Champion that a perfectly healthy young man died from a copperhead bite last summer in LA.
If this had been a severe envenmation, the half hour they wasted before they talked to him could have been the difference in him losing his hand or even life and death. And the statement from Dr Champion should be grounds for a malpractice lawsuit.
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RE: Another hospital incompetence story
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by LarryDFishel on July 12, 2005
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I'm not so sure I agree with you on this one. Your friend waited to see what happened before going in. If he was going to have an allergic reaction, he most likely would have been dead before you got to the hospital.
I don't know offhand how common necrosis is with copperheads, but fatalities are uncommon enough that I think it's perfectly reasonable to say "copperhead bites are not fatal". The ER often has many more urgent problems that are more likely to be fatal (I have no way of knowing if that was the case in this instance).
Yes, a copperhead bite COULD cause anaphylaxis, but so could a bee sting. That doesn't mean if someone comes in with a bee sting and no obvious signs of anaphylaxis that they should be taken ahead of the guy with the stab wound, just in case...
BTW, how is he doing?...
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RE: Another hospital incompetence story
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by Snake18 on July 12, 2005
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If it would have been me, I would have surely sued him. I can`t imagine what romanian doctors would do in case of a hot snake envenomation if some american doctors are that incompetent. Stay safe, Alex S.
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RE: Another hospital incompetence story
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by sceniccityreptiles on July 12, 2005
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Larry, what you say is correct about him waiting, but I think you are missing the point of what made me upset. She made her diagnose without even looking at him. She did not know when he was bitten, where he was bitten, what kind of reactions he was having. He could have been bitten in the neck and foaming at the mouth for all she knew.
“Time is tissue” a quote from Sean Bush. Yes, they had others to deal with and that is fine, but if he was going to need the CroFab is takes about ˝ hour to get it from the RX to the ER and mixed and ready. If they were that nonchalant with this bite, then I feel they would be the same way if I were staggering in from an EDB bite. They should have taken a couple minutes to evaluate and see if the Fab was going to be needed and returned to the other patients why it was being transported and mixed. She is dead now, but a while back I had a 49” intergrade copperhead. She put out more venom during extractions then my 3 foot cottonmouths. A bite from her would by all means carry the potential to be fatal and this Dr could have allowed me to sit in the ER and die making ludicrous statements like she did, having no information to base them on.
He is ok now….little swollen and still sore.
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RE: Another hospital incompetence story
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by tj on July 12, 2005
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Well considering that keeping hots is illegal in TN, unless of course, he was bitten in the field, I think that he's gonna have a hard time trying to sue anybody.
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Why/how was he bitten?
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by MattHarris on July 12, 2005
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This is a case and point, where I tend to AGREE with Jim Harrison and understand why he worded his letter the way he did.
No one on this forum is keeping venomous snakes because THEY HAVE to. It's simply a privelage and to satisfy their own desires. In that regard, there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for ever getting bitten! Whether its a copperhead or mamba, IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN!! PERIOD!!! There's no room for it in this "Hobby".
To suddenly start trying to put the burden or blame on a doctor, who is treating other patients, who in all likelihood, have injuries that were not preventable before treating someone merely messing around with a caged snake, and then have the gall to EVEN THINK OF A MALPRACTICE Suit, its INSANE!!! If i were a judge, I'd throw the suit out in a second!
Matt
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RE: Why/how was he bitten?
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by sceniccityreptiles on July 12, 2005
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“To suddenly start trying to put the burden or blame on a doctor, who is treating other patients, who in all likelihood, have injuries that were not preventable before treating someone merely messing around with a caged snake, and then have the gall to EVEN THINK OF A MALPRACTICE Suit, its INSANE!!! If i were a judge, I'd throw the suit out in a second!”
Doctors and hospitals are business ventures. They got into business to make money. It’s not like they are doing us a favor to treat us when we need them, it’s what they choose to do. And with any business venture, there is reasonable liability and a Doctor who makes diagnose like that with absolutely no information on the patient has committed malpractice. There is no question about that. As is, nothing will come of it. But he had died, his mother would sue and win. If he had lost his hand, he would sue and win. And this would not be an unjust ACLU type suit, would be brought on by a negligent professional.
You can make the case, it was brought on because it was something he choose to do. But you have to also account that in making the decision to keep venomous reptiles he factored in there is a firm near him that is in the business of treating him if an accident happens. If that firm, who choose to operate a profit seeking ER, fails to meet the responsibilities they voluntarily accepted, then by all means they should be held legally liable for that.
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RE: Why/how was he bitten?
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by AquaHerp on July 12, 2005
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My concern would be that the doctor did not examine the initial bite and that could have easily cost the person a digit, a limb or loss of mobility due to tissue or nerve damage. Although a copperhead bite may not be considered "fatal" to some, the loss of a limb, or permanent damage is a serious risk indeed.
Perhaps I am a little sensitive as I had a country bumpkin doctor wait to examine my injuries once and it has cost me two total hip replacements, working on my third, and a lifetime of constant pain. Bottom line is, a copperhead bite may not be a stab wound to the head, but one shouldn’t send someone to the waiting room because "it's not fatal" or so say's her outdated first-aid booklet .
Then again I suppose he could have started the process himself by cutting little X's into his hand and suckin' out da poisin'!!!
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RE: Why/how was he bitten?
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by sceniccityreptiles on July 12, 2005
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“Well considering that keeping hots is illegal in TN, unless of course, he was bitten in the field, I think that he's gonna have a hard time trying to sue anybody.”
TJ, this was a post in total ignorance. We all live at the area where TN, GA, and AL come together. The nearest ER’s to us are in Chattanooga, TN so we use them. He lives in GA. I happen to live in TN, but my collection is housed at secure climate controlled building in GA.
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