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T. albolabris bite report
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by static416 on August 29, 2005
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From other sites and from talking with a local dealer I was under the impression that a T. albolabris bite was fairly mild in comparison to other vipers. This was reaffirmed for me by this report I found below.
http://benerep.net/uploads/artikels/20040702003247.pdf
Even though throughout the article they mention some fairly significant figures regarding effects of bites.
(The incidences of systemic bleeding,
wound necrosis, secondary infection, and antivenin allergy were 17.3%, 6.6%, 5.5%, and 20.8% respectively.)
It is mentioned at the end that the statistics mentioned in the report represent only the moderate and severe cases or 10% of the bite incidents.
(This study includes only patients with coagulopathy. Although
the cases account for only 10% of the total patients,
many unresolved problems in clinical management exist in
this group of patients.)
This seems to confirm that the bite of these snakes is relatively mild which seems to go against the opinions of many keepers on this site. So my question is, is this report accurate? Am I reading it wrong? Or is there a misconception amoung the members of this site that the venom is much stronger than it actually is?
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by Rabies on August 29, 2005
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The report is accurate and I don't think there is a misconseption with regards to other site members. This snake is a major biting species within its range, like with most bites the chances are it will be minor, minor does not necessarily mean sitting at home and sweating it out, you'll probably still need some form of medical attention. The fact that serious envenomations as well as fatalities have been documented, also an antivenom is available should trigger your alarm bells and that the possible capabilities of this snake should not be taken lightly. Personaly any front fanged snake should be handled and respected as if its the most deadly species available.
John
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by tj on August 29, 2005
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The article said that it has a mild venom compared to russell's and malaysian pit vipers, which it does. It also said that there has never been a fatal bite at that specific hospital since the introduction of AV. There HAVE been fatal bites produced by white lip vipers. It all depends on how you want to look at it. To me, if a snake is capable of producing a fatal bite without anaphylaxis occurring, it's venom isn't mild.
If a large albolabris gets a good bite on someone and unloads, I assure you that mild is the last word that person will use.
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by static416 on August 29, 2005
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle the effects of a snake bite from this species, or suggest lax handling practices, I'm just trying to establish that as venomous snake bites go, this is relatively mild. I realize that even though it seems satisically unlikely to cause permenant damage or much less death, a bite would still be extremely painful and an event best avoided.
The reason I bring this up is that back when I was looking to purchase a T. albolabris as my first hot, a dealer suggested a Gaboon instead as a first hot, saying "A hot snake is a hot snake, Gaboons are easier to handle and feed, go with that". However, being a beginner at the time I felt more comfortable working with a more difficult and less dangerous species, than a more passive, almost guaranteed to be deadly species. I figured if I'm going to make a beginners mistake, I'd rather spend a couple days in the hospital for a bad White-lip bite than have a hand amputated and possibly die from a mediocre Gaboon bite.
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by LarryDFishel on August 29, 2005
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I think the point people try to make here is to not look at the average case but the worst case. If you're talking about a hognose, the worst recorded bites cause some swelling and no long-term damage. Few will argue if you call that "mild". The worst case with a white lip sounds like maybe amputation and possibly death if anti-venom is not availible (unlikely but possible). "Mild" might be the wrong word for that, and might lead you to take chances you shouldn't. There's no excuse for getting tagged by a basically stationary snake.
I disagree with the dealer you mentioned. Neither a gaboon nor an arboreal viper is going to get you unless you screw up and get too close. Too close for a gaboon is probably closer than for a white lip, but the likelyhood of serious problems is, maybe 50 tiems higher...
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by captiveherps on August 29, 2005
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I think whitelips are a lot hotter than people give them credit for. They are also difficult for some to get feeding when they are young. I think a copperhead is a much better first hot.
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by Phobos on August 30, 2005
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Questions like this drives me a bit nuts. Each bite is different and unpredictable period! Any data on an LD50 chart is EXPERMENTAL derived from mostly mouse data and not a good predictor of how a human will react. It's like asking which would I like to be shot with...a .22 or a NATO 5.56mm round...the object is not to be bit or shot.
If you are going to get a "first" hot snake, make it a Copperhead. At least the Hospitals have A/V available and it won't freak out the attending Physician by saying you were bit by a "White Lipped Tree Viper" from Asia.
Al
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by tj on August 30, 2005
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I agree with Al about the LD50's. I can't stand those damn charts when people (not that static did) make reference to them and the toxicity of snakes. Bushmasters are almost on the bottom of many lists as far as mice are concerned, yet a bite in a human would certainly be life-threatening in almost any case. Venom certainly does act differently in humans, and varies from person to person. They keys are not to get bit, have a source for AV, and to handle any and all venomous like they are capable of potentially lethal bites. ie. don't get complacent with a pygmy just because you just got done putting a mamba back in it's enclosure.
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by static416 on August 30, 2005
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I was trying to establish that a White-Lip is, on average, one of the less potent bites in relation to other venomous species. And was pointing to a study showing that most cases admitted to the hospital in Thailand resulted in local swelling.
That said, I can see that there is a danger in labelling it "mild" as that may encourage relaxed handling or a false impression that a bite isn't to be taken seriously. I looked through the site bite photos after posting this and almost scared myself into getting rid of my White Lip before reassuring myself that through responsible care and handling the snake at a minimum there is no reason to get bitten by a stationary snake in a locked cage.
As a side note, through my research I also found out that the venom isn't necessarily the only thing to fear from a snake bite. Appartently tetanus and secondary infections are also possible and for the White-Lip, make up most of the fatalities now.
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RE: T. albolabris bite report
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by Phobos on August 30, 2005
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Good points Eric.
I know of several "Venomoid Bites" that required long term IV antibiotic therapy to treat.
Al
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