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US vs Aussie snake bites
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by earthguy on October 12, 2005
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US Australia
Population 295,734,134 20,090,437
Land Area 9,631,418 km˛ 7,617,930 km˛
Population Density ~31 people/ km˛ ~3 people/ km˛
# Bites 7,000 3,000
Per capita 7.3 x 10-4 3.9 x 10-4
# Deaths 15 3
Per bite .2% .1%
Populations from http://www.CIA.gov
Aussie Snake bites from http://www.usyd.edu.au/anaes/venom/snakebite.html
US Snake bites from the CDC
OK guys and gals, I’ve been doing some thinking (yes, I know that is dangerous pass time). Here are the basic statistics for snake bites for the US and Australia. Basically they are incomplete, but they are the best that I can find. I would like to know a few things. First of all, I was surprised to find that there were more deaths attributed to snakes in the US than in Australia. I am not assuming here that the US healthcare system is superior; I just thought that the Aussie snakes were more dangerous. Part of this could be attributed to population density, but again here I thought that more Aussie’s lived on the fringes of civilization than Americans (Personally I like living on the fringes of civilization – that’s where the snakes are). Additionally, a larger percentage of Americans who do get bitten die from the bites. Is our copperhead more dangerous than theirs/yours? Perhaps Aussie antivenins are superior. OK. Now for the questions:
Why do more people die in the US than in Australia from snake bite? I know that in the US the average “victim” is a 15-30 year old male who was bitten on the hand. Of the 7000ish bites in the US 3000 were considered by the CDC “illegitimate” because the person bitten was “molesting” the snake.
Where can I get better statistics? Who are the “biters” in the US? I know that cottonmouths can be pretty aggressive, they hide well, and they have pretty potent venom, but do they kill more people than, say, a coral snake (whose venom is more potent, but they are less likely to be found)? Ditto for the Aussies.
I have read all of the posts in the "speak out" section concerning which snake is the most dangerous. Most of those responses were anecdotal; I would like some hard numbers.
Any other comments/Questions?
As an aside:
Cro - I did a google search first ;)
Phobos - I think it was you who in the speakout section quoted that 70% of bites were rattlers. Where did you get that stat?
Can we get some HTML enabled on these posts? My chart looks horrible in rich text.
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by Rabies on October 12, 2005
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I find Australia has incorporated snake bite managemnt training for its medical staff more intensely than the US. The public are more aware of the dangers and on how to use the appropriate first aid. The CSL antivenoms are more superior than the current CroFab.
The major biting sp in Australia is the Brown snake while in the US I'd say the copper head. Both due to their wide distribution. Western diamondbacks have the reputation of causing the highest numbers of severe bites and possibly fatalities, in Australia this again is most probaly the Brown snake(Pseudonaja). Out of interest, in 1991 the American Poison Control Centre reported 4,408 snake bites, the highest percentage of venomous bites was given to exotic species at 19.5% while rattlsnakes came in at 13.7%.
John
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by earthguy on October 12, 2005
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"Out of interest, in 1991 the American Poison Control Centre reported 4,408 snake bites, the highest percentage of venomous bites was given to exotic species at 19.5% while rattlsnakes came in at 13.7%."
That's interesting. Do you know of any more recent data? In the 1991 report, how did the other ~77% of bites come out. There are only three other species that I can think of (cottonmouths, copperheads, and corals) I would guess that copperheads have a large chunk of that...
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by Rabies on October 12, 2005
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Copperheads 8.8%, cottonmouths 1.5%, unknown crotalids 0.2%, coral snakes 0.6%, nonpoisonous snakes 23.6% and the rest were unidentified. These bites are only voluntary reported, so there's a large piece missing.
John
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by LarryDFishel on October 12, 2005
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I think there may be several things going on here.
1) You goofed the per capita bite rates. You accidentally divided by land area instead of population. Redo it and you will see that you get a more than 10 times higher rate for Australia.
2) The site you mention for Australian snake bite info sounds a bit suspicious. First it says that of 3000 bites, 200-500 (7-17%) require antivenom. Later it says that only 1 in 20 (5%) require emergency treatment. I don't think both of these can be true... Non-emergency antivenom treatment? Either way, either they have a lot more dry bites than we do, or they are counting non-venomous bite (which might account for the 10 times higher bite rate...)
3) People in Australia probably know better than to sit around and "see what happens" after being bitten. Plus they won't be financially destroyed by a trip to the hospital.
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by MoccasinMan on October 12, 2005
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Per capita I have to believe OZ is higher. Don't forget the huge population differences. Where you have more people you have more chances for a bite. Not a very scientific analysis on my part, but possibly valid.
Andrew
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by LarryDFishel on October 12, 2005
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After a little net searching, I'm no less sure. Searching on Austalia,"snake bites per year", I get dozens of sites saying "3000 bites per year", but that's because they're all cut and paste copies of the site you referenced. Wording the search differently, yields estimate all over the map. One says 200 per year (it's clear they're referring to venomous only). One says 1000 (less clear). One says 500-3000 SUSPECTED bites...
Does anyone know the real deal? Dr. Fry?
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by Rabies on October 12, 2005
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According to Dr J. White author of "Clinical Toxicology of Animal Venoms....." he states "Most authorities estimate that there are between 1,000 and 3,000 cases of snakebite in Australia annually, with an average of 2 fatalities" Pseudonaja sp, 1 in 4 definite bites develop significant envenoming. Notechis at least 1 in 2 cases. Taipans with 3 out of 4 bites being fatal.
John
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by flfiremedic on October 13, 2005
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It is also interesting to see how different their emergency treatment protocals are. Actually in some ways contridict ours.
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RE: US vs Aussie snake bites
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by LarryDFishel on October 13, 2005
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At least some of the differnces are due to the differnces in the native snakes. They say not to clean the bite down there because they have lots of similar looking snakes that require different antivenoms and reliable swab tests to identify them. Here, everything but the coral take the same antivenom and the coral is obvious. They say to use a constriction band because all their venomous snakes are elapids, and most are pretty serious. Here we have only vipers except for the coral, and it's not likely to kill you before you get to the hospital.
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