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Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Snake18 on October 28, 2005
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Hy guys,
I`ve just noticed something wrong with my male Vipera ammodytes meridionalis: it`s cloaca and hemipenes are outside...and she won`t put them back in. Why would this happen ? Could this be a serious problem ? I realy care about this snake and would realy hate it if anything were to happen to it.
Anticipated thanks,
Best regards, Alex S.
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Cro on October 28, 2005
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Alex: The everted hemipines in the Vipera ammodytes meridionalis can become a serious problem if the snake does not retract them itself.
You should first try soaking the snake in a saline-water solution at cage temperature. This will help lubricate the hemipines and help reduce the swelling of them. You want to use 2% saline solution, which means dissolving just a slight ammount of salt in the water. Add enough salt so that the water has the same slight salt tase of a human tear. Hopefully, the snake will retract them without your help.
If he does not do this by himself, you will have to give him some help.
You will need to tube the snake so you can work on him. A tube can be made by rolling clear plastic sheet covers like are used for notebooks, and using tape to secure them and seal the far end. Or perhaps the local hardware has some clear pre-made tubing for sale. You can roll heavy paper to make a tube, but this is not reccomended, as you can not see what the front end of the snake is doing. Make sure you have a competant helper, as you will need four hands to hold the snake and manipulate the hemipines back.
After the snake is tubed, you need to lubricate the hemipines with glycerin, vasoline, or one of the human gell lubes. If you have an antibiotic ointment, put some of that on them also. Then you will need to gently try to push them back in, using something rounded and smooth. A well lubed Q tip comes to mind, as does the end of tiny artists paint brushes. Just look around the house to find something. Some reptile probes might work well also if they are not too small. Try to work the hemipines back into place. After they are back in, you will need to clean the lube off the surface of the snake, and you might even want to use a not too sticky tape like masking tape or first aid adhesive tape, to tape over the opening for a couple of days to help retain them. Then remove the tape and hopefully, they will stay put.
Sometimes, a episiotomy-like incision is required to help put them back in place, which would require the help of a veternarian, and purse suturing afterword. If they are not returned to the right place, they will dry out and eventually require amputation. So if you can not get them back in, it is important to keep them lubed so they dont dry out until you can get the help of a vet.
According to Ackerman, the prolapse can be caused by intestinal parasites, substrate irritation, or metaboalic disorders, especially those caused by calcium imbalance. These should be addressed after you have solved the main problem that has to be taken care of first.
Hope this helps. Keep us informed as to how the procedure is going. Be Carefull and Good Luck!
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Snake18 on October 28, 2005
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Damn!
I didn`t think it will be this bad...
I have an antibiotic lubricant which I could use. I allready soked the snake but not in saline water...in normal tap water. I`ll try to get my self a tube of some sort. It`s a realy big and mean snake and I don`t want to risk ingering it or my self. I also don`t have any vets competent enough to do things like this. I`ll have to do thi my self.
Thanks John,
Alex S.
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Snake18 on October 28, 2005
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John,
I just took a better look at my viper.
It`s hemipenes aren`t out but it looks like the inside of cloaca is swollen and that`s what`s out. I lubrified it a little bit and tried to gently push it back it but it wouldn`t work.
ANy more tips ?
Alex S.
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Cro on October 28, 2005
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Alex: I would try another soak using the saline solution. This is supposed to help equalize the pressure and reduce the swelling.
Hopefully, the snake might pull things back in by himself.
If this does not work, you will need to try to keep the everted cloaca from drying out. You could try keeping it lubricated with the petrolium jelly, or other product, even something like lard or butter would be better than nothing. And maybee keep the snake on a moist substrate, such as a damp towell. Again, the snake might pull things back in with its own muscle contractions, but it could take a couple of days.
If that does not work, tube it if at all possible, as it is way safer for you than pinning the snake, and try again to push things back in. Maybee find a larger object to push with. It can be difficult, but should be doable. If it came out, it can go back in. Try gently massaging the base of the tail area before you try to push it all back. This should help relaxe the surrounding musscles, and make it easier.
Please be carefull, and get some help on this, as like you said, the snake is large and powerfull.
Be patient, as this might take a few days to sort out.
Maybee others will have some good advise also. Most of what I am suggesting is from Lowel Ackerman, DVM`s books ``The Health Care of Reptiles.``
Good Luck. JohnZ
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Cro on October 28, 2005
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Alex: Another thought comes to mind, but I have no scientific evidence that it would work on a snake or not. However, I think it might be worth a try.
An everted cloaca on a snake is very similar to hemroids and piles in humans. There are ointments like ``Preperation H Ointment`` and others at the pharmacy.
This ointment supposedly relieves both internal and external hemorrhoidal symptoms. It is supposed to be effective at shrinking swollen hemorrhoidal tissues.
If it was my Viper with the problem, I would readily try something like this ointment and see if it worked.
I do not think it will hurt the snake, and it just might help. It will probably at least lube the cloaca, and keep it from dryin out. It is interesting that it is made by Wyeth, who also happens to make Anti-Venom for snake bite treatment.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Snake18 on October 28, 2005
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Thanks again for the advice John.
I`ll get som hemorroid ointment as soon as possible and folow the other instructions as well. The current substrate it sits on is news papers so I don`t think it is an iritation caused by the substrate.
Alex S.
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Snake18 on October 29, 2005
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I think my viper`s situation is getting worse.
I made my self a tube out of plastic notebook cover and tubed the viper. It`s cloaca was bleeding slightly and looked like it has an infection. It looked like it had bags of (I don`t know the word, the yelow substance that comes with infection...).
I lubed the cloaca with some hemoroid creme. I put a moist towl as a substrate and took out all the rocks...
I massaged it and tryed to put it back in but to no succes.
I think I`ll clean the site with some water and medicinal alkohol and use some antibiotic lubricant after that tomorow. Would this be ok ?
Thanks, Alex S.
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Cro on October 30, 2005
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Alex: It is unfortuante that the viper is getting worse.
If there is yellow pus building up, it does sound like an infection.
I think you are doing the right thing the way you are keeping the viper.
Cleaning the area and using the antibiotic cream sounds like a good idea. Hopefully, enough of the antibiotic will make it into the infected area to stop the infection and allow the snake to heal.
Best Of Luck. JohnZ
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RE: Viper problem...hope it`s not serious...
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by Cro on November 9, 2005
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Alex: I was just wondering how the Vipera ammodytes meridionalis is doing?
Is the infection healing?
Best Regards JohnZ
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