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RE: Interested in Hots
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by Cro on November 6, 2005
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The smell of cottonmouth musk in the morning! What more could a herper ask for! Cro
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RE: Interested in Hots
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by elapidking81 on November 7, 2005
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Let’s not just down the coppers, I have been sprayed quite a few times. While it’s not as bad as the cottonmouth it still smells nice. I remember the first time that I caught a cottonmouth with my girlfriend, who now is my wife, but we were driving down the road I lived on and it was slightly raining. I saw the snake and stopped to catch it. I didn’t have any tools not a darn thing so I used a big but thin book I had in the truck and headed the snake, quickly put it into a sack threw it in the extended part of the truck and took off. The first thing that came out of my beautiful girls mouth was “Dear God what’s that smell” Ha I thought she was going to puke. Now it bothers me more than it does her. She was with me when I caught my first long term hot (Northern Copperhead) we named her stinky ( - ; fun times
Shane Kissinger
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RE: Interested in Hots
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by elapidking81 on November 7, 2005
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One more thing, as for your first hot go with a snake that you feel comfortable with, Also a snake that is practical, and legal. Some people like small snakes and some like big snakes I like larger snakes smaller ones make me nervous because they can be tricky if there is a situation were you have to handle the snake. The smaller snakes that are native to you are less toxic but, Too me harder to handle. (Opinion) While the larger are more lethal but again, Too me easier to handle. (Opinion) Its just were your comfort range is. It’s not a good idea to get a snake you are scared of.
Shane Kissinger
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RE: Interested in Hots
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by ALA_herp31 on November 7, 2005
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So true Shane, being in contact with a Venomous Snake is Nerve Racking as it is, not to add the fact that if you are scared of the Snake it makes things even more touchy. In my mind a Small amount of Fear for the Snake will Save your Life, but if you Fear it too much, it can Kill. As for myself, I prefer to Handle Smaller Snakes. Considering I don’t Tail a Venomous Snake, it really makes no deference to me what the size of the Snake is. I believe that Tools, not Hands are the Best way to handle any Venomous Snake. The only time you will ever see me touch a Venomous Snake, is if I need to Medicate or in some way Help the Snake. Just my own way of doing things.................Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: Interested in Hots
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by elapidking81 on November 7, 2005
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I also think that a respectable amount for fear is required. But too much can cause you to make mistakes. I’ll be the first to say that I have put my self in bad situations, like getting a snake that I wasn’t ready for. One time when I was in my 2nd year of keeping venomous reptiles I got a Gaboon Viper. A former friend of mine got 4 Gaboons and 1 Rhino. He asked me if I wanted one of the Gaboons. I said yes and got my snake without any planning or even talking I over with my wife. Well I got home ran some water in the bath tub to let the snake soak (Something I always do when I get a new snake). So here I am my newly acquired exotic with no idea of how to care for it “Scary” . Ok this snake is about 3 ½ ft and very thick. The head was about as wide as my fist. So I like to call this impromptu keeping. To the seasoned keepers here they know that this is a very bad thing, and actually can be habit forming. Acquiring the snake is the easy part. So the snake is soaking and I am petrified this was no Copperhead. Luckily my good friend gave me the most aggressive of the bunch. The snake had a couple of goes at me, and I about wet my self. Well the wife comes home, looks in the bathroom and literally has a coming apart on me. Which at the time I didn’t understand because most think that Gaboons are very pretty snakes? My wife is the exception. So I let the snake crawl through some towels to dry it off. After that I put it in a empty cage. By this time I knew that I was over my head, and the “Coming to Jesus” talk my wife had with me didn’t help. I was in a very bad situation. Luckily the man I got it from actually asked to have it back. He was one of those that trade snakes like baseball cards. I got lucky and didn’t get stuck with any long term commitments. Moral of the story. Get the knowledge, tools, training caging, and then the snake. And before that I would defiantly visit the “Snakebite Photo Album” on this site, and include anybody that might be living with you. Hope this helps, and I wish you the best.
P.S Heath, what part of Alabama are you from I live in the extreme north east of Mississippi, and would love to help or assist in any way I can. If you don’t want to give your location on the open forum you can always Email me at the address in my profile.
Shane Kissinger
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RE: Interested in Hots
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by Dadee on November 11, 2005
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Wow, some of the advice I've read in this thread has almost "evolved" by itself, from the advice given in the past. Not meaning any of the following points to be included in this statement, some points I'd like to address.
John, I was a little shocked by your statement of "If you start with a copperhead, you will be able to learn a great deal, and if you get tired of it, you could release it into suitable habitat in your state". I've always thought you've added some great points in these threads, which the rest of your statement is categorized here in my mind, but this part threw me. I agree with Terry on this one, releasing a snake into the wild could be damaging to the population. Don't take offense on this, but I had to speak up on this one.
Wally also gave you some great advice on handling. He said, he doesn't tail venomous snakes. This is extremely important in your start of experience in keeping. Never use your hands, where a tool could be used. Treating a venomous snake (no matter the level of lethalness), like it's a loaded gun pointing at you, is by far the best way to look at your charges in your care. I know others will tell you, you can tail them, but until you're trained by someone who has the level of experience in tailing, it's best to use tools.
You pointed out you're going to get everything you need first and build your own cage. I'd like to give you one piece of advice on making the lid. If you plan on using something of a "box" structure, with a hinged lid or even a pull off lid, if the lid isn't solid, use the following. All of my lids are double covered with hardware cloth. My lids are constructed of the thickest plywood I could get, then I took a roll of hardware cloth and wrapped it. This makes a barrier in the event of a straight up strike that if your hand is on it, puts (hopefully) enough between your hand and the fangs. On mine, this total thickness is approximately 1 1/2 inches. By the way, hardware cloth is like chicken wire gauge meshing that's not as tight woven as a screen, but enough that nothing can get out, or fingers in.
Above all, if you're unsure of anything, ask questions. There's plenty of experience here and plenty of advice will be given.
Good luck,
Matt
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RE: Interested in Hots
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by Cro on November 11, 2005
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Matt: When I suggested to Grover that "If you start with a copperhead, you will be able to learn a great deal, and if you get tired of it, you could release it into suitable habitat in your state", I was basing that on his (original question) where he stated: ``What is the best "Hot" to start with? I have caught copperhead and timber rattle snakes before, but never keep them. ``
I (assumed) that he was talking about finaly keeping a copperhead or timber rattlesnake that he had caught locally in the wild, and in the past had released after catching, instead of keeping them in captivity.
I chose copperhead, as it is a much safer snake than a timber rattlesnake. I also chose copperhead as it is a much better choise than a Asian Vine Snake that he mentioned further in the post.
What I was invisioning was Grover catching a local copperhead, and keeping it as a starter venomous snake. I figgured that if he got tired of it, he could release it back where he originally caught it, assuming the weather was still warm enough. I probably should have said ``original location of capture,`` instead of ``suitable habitat.``
He said he keeps local cornsnakes and king snakes, so there is not much chance of some exotic parasite or illness being introduced to the copperhead, and then transferred into the wild, if he chooses to release the coppehead back where he caught it, if he tires of it after a few months.
He said he does not keep exotic animals like boas, and pythons, so there is little chance of some exotic parasite or disease making it to the copperhead.
If he were keeping imported snakes, lizards, or turtles, I would have advised differently, as all of his native snakes would have probably picked up some wierd tropical organisims from cross contamination.
Terry`s advice of: ``Please, do not release a snake back into the wild that has been in captivity for even a short period of time, especially if you keep other snakes or other reptiles, the possible catastrophic introduction of exotic parasites, bacteria, viruses and other ecologically damaging sorts into a local population,`` is valid concerning exotic disease, especially if other exotic snakes are being also kept. I believe it is somewhat less valid if only local snakes are being kept, although there is still some possibility that his king snakes and cornsnakes could transfer something to his copperhead, or vise-versa.
As far as those who have advised Grover to go out and buy a captive bred snake, I am not sure I agree with that at all. If you could find a local breeder who ONLY breeds copperheads, maybee that would be true, BUT, from what I have seen at the Greenville and other Reptile Shows, I have decided that a lot of the captive bred snakes that are being offered are small and weak and sickly. They have also been exposed to many more parasites, disease, and bacteria threats, than snakes captured from the wild. They are overcrouded, and in contact with many exotic, imported snakes, lizards, and turtles. Everytime they are carted off to a reptile show, and probably back at the reptile breeders place of business, they are exposed to more disease and stress. Which copper head is most likely to have a disease? The one captured from the wild, or the one that has lived in close proximity to hundreds of native and exotic snakes at a reptile breeders place of business?
I think Grover is far better off going out and catching a copperhead, and bringing it home to keep, than buying one at some show or from a breeder.
That way he will know its habitat is not a DELI CUP ! He will learn more about its role in nature, and how it fits into its habitat. He will possibly be able to observe where it spends its days, what it eats, where it suns itself, where it spends its nights, and what it does in the wild. A captive bred snake will never teach you any of that.
I am not sure that Matt and Terry fully understood my original intent, but I appreciate their observations. Perhaps I was reading too much between the lines of the original question. My advice to Grover was based my interpentation of what he was intending to do with local venomous snakes that he wanted to catch and keep.
I guess I have ``stirred the pudding some`` with the above comments. It will be interesting to see what others add to this thread. Best Regards JohnZ
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