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we need to document snake locations
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by bush_viper17 on November 6, 2005
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I have been thinking about how misleading alot of field guides are. I want to do a project next spring/summer to document snakes in areas that have yet to be studied. I would like to get together with other members and discuss places to study. In particular I would like to start with Northwest Georgia. This place is basically untouched by the herpetological world. Everything I have read says that redbellied water snakes arent withing at least 150 miles of my area. I found 3 different specimins in two different locations last year and even Whit Gibbons of the SREL confirmed the indentification. I am almost positive cottonmouths(A. piscivorous)live further north in Georgia than the field guides say. I wouldn't be surprized if there was a population somewhere in the Chattanooga area also. A list of species that I would like to document in the Northwest Georgia area are:
Scarlet Kingsnake-Lampropeltis triangulam elapsoides
Northern Pine Snake-Pituophis m. melanoleucus
Eastern Cottonmouth-Agkistrodon p. piscivorous
Red-bellied water snake-Nerodia e. erythrogaster
Eastern Hognose snake-Heterondon platyrhinos
I would also like to document the Grey Rat snake. I have found what I think are Black rat/grey rat crosses but I have yet to find a pure grey rat snake.
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RE: we need to document snake locations
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by bush_viper17 on November 6, 2005
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A close friend of mine also swears to me that he has found a northern pine snake in my area. He has a pretty good knowledge of snakes and would easily be able to indentify one if he saw it. I have no proof of his claim, but he sounds pretty sure of himself.
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RE: we need to document snake locations
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by Cro on November 6, 2005
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Jeremy: Sounds like a good project. You are very right about the NW area of Georgia being one of the most un-studied areas of the State.
As far as the snakes you listed, both the Northern Pine and Eastern Hognose should be in your area.
I have found both in White County, and am sure that if you find the right habitat in your area, you will find them.
Both of these snakes prefer sandy soil, as they like burrowing around. The most likely areas for sandy soil are going to be along river flood plains and edges of lakes. Hognoses especially are found near lakes and ponds, as the toads they feed on hatch out in lakes and ponds.
A lot of hog nose snakes go unfound, as when you flip tin or boards and stuff, you will see holes in the ground under the tin, but no snake. What you need to do is take your snake hook and start at these holes, and follow the tunnels they turn into. Often the tunnels are just under the surface of the ground, and you can run your hook through them. Very often a hognose snake will be in one of the tunnels, just out of site, but not visible when you flip the tin.
A lot of folks mistake the tunnels made in the sand by these snakes as those made by moles, as they are very similar. And prehaps the hognose also uses burrows made by moles. Anwyay, the point is that the hognoses are there, but you might be missing them by just a few inches, as they might be further inside the burrows and out of site.
Maybee this spring I can make it up to your area and do some herping. I would like to learn more about that area of the state, and the animals found there.
Hope this helps. JohnZ
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RE: we need to document snake locations
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by bush_viper17 on November 6, 2005
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Thanks John. I have been past White Co. several times but I have never looked there. You have gotten my hopes up. I have been looking for hognoses in my area for a while now. The area that my friend told me he found a northern pine looked(in my opinion) like an ideal place to find one from what I have heard. It was by a river also. I have also heard that Carolina Pigmies are found in Adairsville. Do you know if this is true? Adairsville isnt far at all from my house. I can get there in less than an hour driving. Again, thanks alot for the reply. You always have good answers and I respect the amount of knowledge you have.
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RE: we need to document snake locations
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by Cro on November 6, 2005
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Jeremy: I am not sure if Carolina Pygmys are found near Adairsville, or not, but it sure comes close to the known range.
Years ago I was told by some reliable people that they had found them in The Pockett.
I made a couple of trips there to try to locate one, but never found any. Both trips there were late in the season, and it was cold and windy. Other snakes were out though, like ratsnakes, racers, garter snakes, and copperheads.
The problem with the pygmys is that even if they are there, which I bet they might be, they are probably uncommon, and you could spend a long time searching before you ever found one.
Something you might want to try for pygmys next year in that area is find a farmer who is harvesting round hay bales in September, and early October, and get permission to look for snakes. Then roll over the hay bales a couple of feet just enough to expose the underside. If they are abandoned bales that have been left a long time, that is even better, but they will have hundreds of pounds of water in them, and you will probably have to push them over with a car or a tractor. That has been a good technique for them in some areas.
JohnZ
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RE: we need to document snake locations
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by RepFan on November 7, 2005
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Jeremy,
You may be able to find resources you are looking for at the upcoming 3rd Annual All South Carolina Herpetology Symposium on January 21st 2006 at the Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia S.C. Hope this helps.
~Todd
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RE: we need to document snake locations
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by Cro on November 7, 2005
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Todd: Could you supply more details of the 3rd Annual All South Carolina Herpetology Symposium, for those who might want to attend?
There is scant information available on the web.
Best Regards JohnZ
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by RepFan on November 7, 2005
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John,
As soon as I get in touch with Steve Bennett; I will pass on all the info and list it into the calender section.
~Todd
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by herpboy on November 9, 2005
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i have personally herped northwest georgia and documented snakes such as the northern pine and carolina pigs speaking of which last year i had the sad event of watching a 5ft 9in northern pine die in my hands. i have since recorded one more dead one in the area and locals have told me of (big white snakes with black blotches) seen while clearing fields.
i have pics of the big one and hope to post um soon
thanks
Bryan
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