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``Neodesha`` Like Cages
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by Cro on July 17, 2006
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Ok, as some of you know, I am interested in bringing back a ``Neodesha`` type reptile cage.
I will be meeting this month with some folks in the plastic vaccume molding business.
This is a poor time to be doing this, as plastics are made of petrolium, and with $3.00 a gallon gasoline, the raw materials for a plastic cage are rather expensive.
However, there is some chance to still make this work. It depends on a few things. Like the cost of materials. And wether it would be worth the extra cost to build a cage of a heavier plastic than the old Neodeshas were made of. I would like to see an ABS plastic cage (white-water canoe material), but that would make for a fairly expensive cage. A Neodesha type cage gets brittle after a few years, but still is a excellent cage.
I guess what I want now is to again ask folks here for cage ideas, as to what would improve the original design. And Ideas as to cage sizes. And Ideas as to what would be a reasonable price for a 12, 18, 24, 36, and 48 inch cage.
There is no way a start up business could build all the various cage types that the old guys had.
But we could build a cage with tempered glass, and a shorter dam in the front, and with no place for small snakes to hide. We could build a cage that would allow floresent light above the screen vent on the top. Building a stacking cage could prove to be a real problem, as it does not work well with the sloped back of the Neodesha style cage.
So, give me some ideas and incouragement! I am meeting with the plastic guys soon. I need input of what folks are looking for in reptile cages. And I need input as to what you think a good cage should cost.
Thanks in advance for any and all ideas and advice on this matter.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: ``Neodesha`` Like Cages
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by LarryDFishel on July 17, 2006
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Stackable would be cool, but I know it's a problem (you have to either make them REALLY heavy or put in those reenforcing ribs I hate so much in the visions).
I'd really like to see one with the floor size of the 36" neodeshas but only about the height of the 24's. A lot of snakes don't need that much vertical space, and then you could fit more cages in the same space. I'd be just as happy if the top wasn't slanted at all, but if you need a little slant to simplify the molds, it would be OK.
And yes, a lower litter dam would be great. If you made it half as tall, I wouldn't care if you didn't make any without.
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RE: ``Neodesha`` Like Cages
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by Cro on July 18, 2006
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Larry, Thanks for the ideas ! Having a 36 inch cage that is less tall is a good idea. That way it could be made to fit commonly available shelfing. I believe that a short litter dam would allow folks who wanted to use gravel or chips to do so, by sloping the substrate material from front to back, and would not be too much a problem for folks wanting to use news paper. The most important thing is a close door seal and lack of hiding places inside.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: ``Neodesha`` Like Cages
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by Frawgg on July 18, 2006
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john, the Precision cages in my opinion are probably the most decent cages manufactured right now. However, I HATE the fact that the cages DON'T have a one piece sliding front door that is LOCKABLE. I personally like a little heighth to the cage (24" approx.) for a over head radiating heat source. I feel that a cage with a smaller height would permit too much heat to be dispersed throughout the cage. Also, if you could incorporate an EXTERNAL trap/catch box system into the design of your cages, that would give your cages an advantage over any other cage currently being manufactured. If you have Dr. Fry's "Reptile Care An Atlas of Diseases and Treatments" Volume 1 (Pages 21 & 25)published by T.F.H. Publications 1991 ISBN 0-86622-215-4 (Vol. 1). Look at the photos in this book and you can see what I am talking about. 36" length would be a great all purpose size. However, with larger more agile and dangerous elapids (mambas, taipans, forest cobras, etc.) I would think it prudent to offer an even larger cage with the option of a TOP openining so the keeper can have the advantage of working above the snake. A light shift reversal catch/trap box system would also be a plus in a venomous caging system. If you would like to talk to me about my ideas in greater detail, I would be more than happy to. You can E-mail me at coralcobras@hotmail.com or m.mount@hotmail.com and I can give you my phone number to discuss this in greater detail. I have hed a venomous cage design for some time and I would like to see my ideas considered into a reality. Good luck with your endeavor! Sincerely, Michael
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RE: ``Neodesha`` Like Cages
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by Rob_Carmichael on July 19, 2006
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I LOVE neodeshas and would love to see something similar come back (that is, the slant fronted, one sliding door model). I personally like the height of the neodeshas as it is aesthetically pleasing and as someone else mentioned, allows you to put a radiant heat panel in the cage. More height means better air quality and ventilation so that is a plus in my book. Stackability on slant front cages is not a big deal, that's what industrial style shelves are for. I would stick with what made neodesha successful; just a few options like the 2', 3', 4', 6' option (or up to four feet to start with ). I like the idea of having some options like basking vents, side vents, litter dam, etc. but you may choose to just have a basic model to start off with. Prices need to be competitive and I would just look at what else is out there. When neodesha went back into business a few years back, they outpriced themselves leading to a short stay.
Put me on your mailing list if you get this thing up and running.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: ``Neodesha`` Like Cages
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by Cro on July 20, 2006
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Michael and Rob,
Thanks for the ideas on the cages!
Because of cost involved in making the molds, I would have to start out with just a few basic models of cages. If these proved successfull, I would be more able to add specialty items like an trap/catch box that could be added on to cages, and other size cages, and different cage openings.
I would be contracting with a plastics molding company near here, and it is still up in the air if they will install things like the vents and screening,substrate dams, drilled holes for locks, and glass rails, or if I will be doing that finishing here in my own shop. It will come down to cost of their labor in doing this verses my labor in finishing the cages.
I do have a fairly large workshop that could be used for finishing cages and installing custom options like swithch boxes, substrate dams, and multiple vents, and could probably hire a worker to do that, as well as box up the cages for shipping.
As far as the tall verses short 36 inch cages, both have a purpose. The tall ones are great for display, but will not fit in a standard size shelf. The short size ones would be great for folks who house a lot of snakes that are not for display, as you could put 4 cages on one of the common plastic shelving units at Home Depot or Lowes. So, it is possible I would offer a tall and short 36 inch cage.
I do not think stackable is an option.
Like many others here, I use Neodesha cages, and like a lot of their features. I do not like the way they get brittle with age, or the way the glass rail saggs over time, making the glass hard to slide. I do not like they way it is difficult to put a light fixture over them. I do like the tightness of the seal, and the abilty to lock them, and the sloping front.
The plastic I have in mind is about 3 times thicker than the Neodesha, and would be less likely to become brittle with time. But, of course, it will cost some more than the thin stuff.
Neodesha (AKA Bush Herpetological) had the advantage of being part of a multi-million dollar plastics factory. I will not have that, but will be contracting with a big plastics company, so I will have less options as to custom cages at first.
Hopefully, we can work out a deal that will allow them to mold the cages, and me to finish them, and supply them at a reasonable price. We should know soon if it is possible.
Thanks again for the ideas !
Best Regrads JohnZ
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