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relocation of cottonmouths
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by rickyduckworth on July 24, 2006
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tell me if this sounds plausible/acceptable/groovy:
there is this large, old swamp in the middle of one of the subdivisions we work at and eventually, there will be houses ALL around it....backyards slanting into the swamp.....now, that's not a big issue for all animals except snakes, because the motto for nearly all goes something like this; "the only good snake is a dead snake"
i mean, the local paper wrote an article about a "man not scared of snakes" because he went out of his way to kill a 7' "chicken" snake (black rat).....he's a hero.....people hate snakes with a passion
so, is there anything negative about relocating as many cottons as i can to a wildlife refuge about 5 miles away....they're protected, it's a very large swamp with a small population of cottons in parts of it already, food is plentiful, cover is plentiful, not a heavy recreational area, etc........
seems like a way to save the snakes IMO because all that wander away from the heart of the swamp will certainly be slaughtered and that really bugs me.....
i spent about 20 minutes looking today and saw 7 eastern cottons.....they're VERY heavy in this area.....2 were around 4ft and heavy bodied 4 were 3ft and healthy, 1 was younger but still 2ft......
that's a lot of easily seen targets
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RE: relocation of cottonmouths
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by 23bms on July 24, 2006
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I would do it. And, to H*ll with the fussbudget PhD (or wannabe) whiners and other self-appointed "experts" who will undoubtably disagree. Animals are far more adaptable than the whiners want to think. (Alas, very few manage to adapt to a shotgun, a shovel or a Buick.) Survival is an absolute instinct whether it's the native or the transplant. If they are going to be dead in the original area (I agree with you, a given) there is nothing to lose by moving them. Maybe they'll wipe out an extra pica [optionally, substitute your favorite plague animal] or two as a bonus.
Sorry. I'm a bit crabbed out tonight.
jrb
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RE: relocation of cottonmouths
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by Cro on July 24, 2006
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I agree with jrb.
Relocate them to as many different suitable habitat areas as possible within the refuge.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: relocation of cottonmouths
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by kacz on July 24, 2006
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I can't condemn your intent. I've done the same thing dozens of times up here in suburban Philadelphia over the past 40+ years (not cottonmouths, of course). But, do you really think it will do any good? As they are, the majority of those snakes are probably doomed. Relocating them may just delay the inevitable. If the preserve to which you want to relocate them already has a long standing population it may already be maxed and balanced at its carrying capacity. The introduction of many additional animals at once may stress the available resources there.
I always found that doing something similar made me feel great. I suspect it didn't do a heck of a lot for the animals.
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RE: relocation of cottonmouths
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by Atrox788 on July 27, 2006
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Please keep in mind the potential problems with your intentions. Snakes from different locals develop different imunities and such to common bacteria and even virus in a given locality. Transplanting animals to a new locality can actualy have extream detremental effect on the new population. Just because trasplanted snakes can survive these micro terrors in their natural local dosent mean the new local's population can.
If there is an area very close by then hell, go for it I guess. Just keep in mind the potential problems. Cottonmouths seem to overwinter seprately or in small groups for the most part so den issues that you see if A.c.mokaesen and Crotalus horridus shouldnt proove too problematic.
However, many studies of transplanted snakes have shown to be disasterous for the specimens because they no longer know the terrain, dont act like as they should and usualy die shortly after being relocated.
Personaly I feel this is more of a problem with snakes that rely on rock out croppings for over wintering sites and food as well as location of water etc. Since cottonmouths are swamp goers were food and water are plentiful and occur in somwhat warmer climantes then the before mentioned species they should be ok.
Id be very interested to see a relocation study on Cottons specificly. All I have seen prior were usaly revovled around Western Crotalus and mokasen and horridus.
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RE: relocation of cottonmouths
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by AquaHerp on July 27, 2006
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"Survival" of that individual animal is not what the PhD or "wannbe" is foremost concerned with here. It's survival of the “population” of the animals that the new key animals are released into. Simply because people that understand BASIC biology and ecological principals caution against translocation of animals does not mean they are unsympathetic to the species as a whole, or even the individual animal's right to exist. It simply means there are sound scientific and documented reasons as to why animals are not recommended for translocation and indeed are in many states forbidden by law to do so.
Now, if the area is close by, shares the same watershed or drainage it may not be too far fetched. But to open handedly say that just “screw science” and what they have learned over the decades of studying this very topic is just plain childish.
Doug Hotle
General Curator
Abilene ZOOlogical Gardens
Abilene, TX
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RE: relocation of cottonmouths
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by 23bms on July 28, 2006
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Doug,
Apparently you either missed, or misunderstood, my codicil.
Some of your points are valid. However, the margin of error in behavior studies is large. There is an immense amount of often questionable extrapolation involved if the conclusions are to be applied much further than the study population. I am not unfamiliar with the literature and am aware that some studies are suggestive, even if not DEFINITIVE proof of concept. Further, as suggested in other responses, studies of 'Species A" are not necessarily valid for other geographically or phylogenetically remote species. In other words, what MAY be - and may very well be - valid for horridus in NY or PA may not apply with equal validity to piscivorus in GA.
I am willing to grant that there are some intelligent PhDs out there. My wife is one. But there are also a lot who are pumping out incredibly shoddy work and who shamelessly attempt to extrapolate their narrow - and often dubious - findings into grotesque "Universal Laws" or, worse, hysterically demand immediate action by the Federal government, via whatever regulatory body is currently trendy, on the flimsy basis of those questionable findings. These "researchers" define and personify the fallacy of the Hasty Generalization (among others), and were the target of my admittedly intemperate remarks.
Finally, as I noted in my original comments, the animals in question are doomed in situ. Is the ecology of southern Georgia, or where ever it is, going to come crashing down if an ATTEMPT is made to relocate them a couple of swamps over? I hardly think so.
jrb
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RE: relocation of cottonmouths
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by AquaHerp on July 29, 2006
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Granted, if you're talking strictly about a number of snakes and their chances of survival if being translocated to a nearby area, then I agree the odds are indeed in their favor. And more than likely, no damage done in the process. You're probably talking root ball and rodent burrow-type denners anyways with no specific gravitational pull towards a hibernacula as say a luecostoma of Illinois might.
My main lead-in, and reason for "other experts" maybe chiming in, was that of the ever present disease transmission to adjacent colonies that may not be resistant to something that these might be carrying. And it's not just kooky herpetologists PhDs either, it's across the board with moving any animal around into another’s territory. Any idea of the paperwork and tests involved in moving farm livestock around? Even to the Sate fair? Shipping a parrot across State lines? Technically, although rarely does anyone do it, you're supposed to get a signed health certificate to move you're dog across the state line. It really is serious business. So how does it relate to local wildlife? Technically it (the animal) should be left where it's at. Some Sates say it's okay as long as it's in the same county of origin, others have different rules. Each State governs a little different according to their needs. Why? So we don't end up with things like the rampant URI in wild desert tortoises from an introduced origin, or maybe crossing another mycobacterium across to some cichlids. Paramixovirus anyone? (has been found in wild snakes now) These are the risks of mixing and matching from different populations. Of course, as I had stated before, one could look deep and hard at the microhabitat that animal is in and see if it actually makes any physical connection to the translocation spot. Does it share the same watershed? Is it possible the population could have made it their unaided? Is it possible that snakes from there are already making their way over by happenstance (dropped by birds or prey or other).
It's not totally out of the question. And I certainly am the last egghead on the planet to let too much statistical BS cloud my logical common sense, so if the area is literally only 5 miles away, I am sure that it's probably more than primo area for the snakes.
I am simply making a case for the "other"; thanks.
Doug Hotle
General Curator
Abilene ZOOlogical Gardens
Abilene, TX
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