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RE: Underage keepers
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by SHAGGIE on October 23, 2006
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I am really new to this site,well as for as having a name and profile anyway. I found this site about six months ago and thought this was the best site that i could find on venomous reptiles so i started reading.There is a wealth of knowledge on this site, but the more i read the more dishearting this site became.There are alot of post here from people who are under 18, most are questions about wanting knowledge about speices, cross breeding or just general knowledge and the posts turn into a bunch of whining about their age. It is obvious that a parent or both know and egknowledge the risk associated with keeping venomous reptiles and noone here has the right to question their parenting skills. With that said instead of complaining about "too young" which has been pounded into the ground, why not give them the best information about handling, care, and anything else to keep safe since this is what they are going to do anyway. Everyone says don't be another statistic, well then teach how seems to me like they want to learn.
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RE: Underage keepers
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by YoungHerp1 on October 23, 2006
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SHAGGIE is right. But as far as me defending myself like that its nateral, for anyone. Just think if this post was about you, you would do similar. As far as impressinga anyone about me tailing my gaboon, i dont realy care if i did or didnt. It was the only pic of my gaboon i have so i posted it. I didnt mean to start a "war". This site is the best ive ever been on. Most people help out with your problems or questions. The only one im realy pissed at is lucky. Like ive been sayin come to ME if there is a problem, not just tell everyon NOT to sell to me. Re read my posts about this topic and some things I say are very very true and right. And lucky keeps saying about typing. EVERYONE doesnt type or need to type perfect on this site or any other one unless its for a job, volunteer ect.. you no what i mean. I dont mean to single you out hoyta but your the one that i seen a mistake LOL. no offense tho (hopefully) "tat" for example see lucky. Just read the whole site and you will see that diff. people type in differant ways. Im sorry hoyta if i did anything thing or said anything to offend you. Im a good kid and take my snakes and reptiles VERY seriously. As far as the pic Its the only one i had of my gaboon and i jsut wanted to share it thats all, i didnt want to impress anyone AT ALL. I spend hours honestly with my snakes and other reptiles, and reading and learning new things. I dont care if you beleive me about that one but its true. Young herpers are the furture.
Sincerly, MIke
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RE: Underage keepers
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by petra on October 23, 2006
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I was not planning to join in but I really cannot help it. As far as the age issue - I do believe that some kids can be way more responsible than adults. However go and look at that picture of yourself one more time. You do realize that there is no such “it was just this one time” when it comes to keeping venomous, right? That very time could have been the last picture of you. That gaboon had the chance to strike. YOU gave it the chance to kill you. You were JUST lucky. In this hobby you shouldn't need to be lucky - that should show you that you might not be as ready as you think you are. And trust me this has nothing to do with your age. I am 31 and if I ever thought I just got lucky I'd give up my venomous snakes because I am responsible and I do have a family that needs me alive. Until the time that you will be 100% positive that you will not have a close call you should stick to the massasauga and whitelips. Those snakes are not as deadly as gaboon viper is and you will live even though you may loose your finger.
You may think that a lot of older keepers have close calls and it's fine. No it is not and I do not believe they should be keeping venomous snakes unless they have they own supply of AV and can make sure that they will live.
As far as typing - it is very sad that people got used to not being able to spell so much that it becomes OK to type with so many mistakes! I know I do misspell and I get very embarrassed if I make a mistake.
I am aware my typing and my composition are not good but this is my second language. I have lived in US only 6 years and didn't study English at school. It is not an excuse - more of an explanation.
In my country people look down on someone who cannot spell and it is a great shame. As far as American people - I really do not mean to offend anyone but people from other countries just have the impression that the young people in US are not very smart.
You do not realize how many people from different countries visits American forums (not just reptile related) Main reason – in other countries there is not so much info on their sites so they look for it. Often a lot of people can speak English better than American people do and than they just shake their heads…
As far as me – sometimes it takes me a while to figure out what was written and translate it to English.
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RE: Underage keepers
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by squigy on October 23, 2006
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okay, well im a young keeper or younger i guess and i do see that we get alot of harsh judgements from the older people in this hobby. I've had alot of complaining done about my venomous and i started at 20, having big boas and pythons for 5 years prior. I wish that there was more support for the younger hot keepers and definetly more training possibilities. But back to the gaboon......the "it was only one time" comment had me taken aback. That is the worst thing you could've said. I've never had that thought when dealing with my life.
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RE: Underage keepers
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by plainblain on October 23, 2006
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It is totally against my better judgement, but I am going to weight in on this "kid" thing.
As time goes on, things change. Technologies change and so do "channels of distribution." They become better and more effient with larger selections to buy.
I kept a Northern Copperhead in 1960 in the basement of my parents' home. Only because I caught him myself. I let him go after a few weeks.
My freinds and I scoured the country side looking for snakes, lizards, skinks, amphibions, turtles or anything we could find.
We ordered snakes from Ray Singleton, Wild Cargo and a bunch of other places that had snakes that were not indiginious to our places.
The wild "bad-ass" exotics were not available to us unless our parents werer involved. Forget that.
The snake ordering companies treated kids like shit and wanted to talk to our parents if we wanted something dangerous. So the deal was dead.
So if you want to say the old days are like now, I will call you a cure-dog scum-bag liar. Boys...they are not!
Inexperienced herps can get Gaboon Viper and Puffs and anything they have the money for and are stupid enough to buy. That did not exist when I was growing up. No way! If you wanted a hot in the ole' days, you had to get your fat ass out and catch it.
But times have changed. Now with this internet thing, you can correspond with people all over the world and buy whatever you want. Then you get on the internet and tell the world what you bought and you wonder why experienced herps have a fit. da. whatever.
I have been a single parent since 1989, at that time the kids were 1 yr. old to 14 yrs. old. They are 19 to 32-33 now? They are all doing good. They are all doing far better than I was at thier age. That means I did good as a parent.
I had 2 kids that would listen, and 3 that would go their own way. The 3 that went their own way were tuff...but one was off the chart. I wore the carpet out with my knees begging judges not to put him in jail and working all kinds of deals to keep him out. When he was 15 or 16 I bought an insurance policy just to make sure I would have enough money to bury him if I had to. By the grace of God, I did not have to. He is doing big-time well now. He lived!
So the point is this: Badder things are available to younger people than ever before because of better? channels of distrubution. You have younger people that will listen to older folks, and you have younger people that hold us in contempt.
I put kids into one of two categories...they will listen and take advise or they will not. As on this forum, where we deal in beautiful but dangerous creatures, young people can take the advise or not. But the info and advise and proccedures are availble to them and if they go their own way at least they have the info.
If you are determined to do what you do, although the experienced guys are really bugged at you, after they give you noise, they will tell you how to deal with what you have in a safe way. They will tell you how to handle whatever its is you managed to procure. If you screw-up and succomb...oh well, you are just giving the local funeral home more business.
good luck
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RE: Underage keepers
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by Atrox788 on October 24, 2006
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Its not about you being a kid! Its about you notr haveing the resources to follow proper protocal. If your mother is going to go through the AV permit procedure for you (somthing you will not be able to do as a 17 yrs old)then good for you. If not then you, regardless of your age have no buisness keeping exotic hots. None at all. No one does.
You said you will look into it. You should have 30 viles in your hand or at a Doc's office prior to you ever getting the snake! By not doing so show irresponsibility. It does, deny it if you want. Doont try to use the excuse "adults do it" to justify not haveing it. Being an adult or kid has nothing top do with it!
I admit, at the time that I kept Naja I didnt have my own AV in hand. I did however have a reliable personal source, somone who had obtained permits on their own who would cover me. I paid a small fee for this and never felt better.
I garuntee you do not have any soruce of AV for a Gaboon worked out. Untill you do, weather your 75 or 15 you are iresponsible and are a bad represenative of this hot comunuty.
Let me also ask you this. Setriously, how many times have you ytrained under a pro keeper? How many times have you visited known keepers collection and were able to see these animals worked with on a daily basis? Have you ever? If youy have then either your mentor was a poor keepere or you didnt learn anything!
Im sorry but by your response your not as mature as you are claiming to be. Sure emmotions run high when your being critisized but come on. Thats part of being a grown up and being in this hobby. By getting so reilied up and not even addressing properly the main arguments aginst you keeping your focusing on the people who said somthing you dont like toi hear. Being adult means you will get critizied. Sorry but them the facts.
If you want to shut up us "stuck up" keepers then show us you have the maturity to get the esentials to assure both you and your mothers well being. Untill such time your not even worth argueing with.
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RE: Underage keepers
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by Buzztail1 on October 24, 2006
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This is already a long thread and I am going to try to address facts as I remember them from just having read the entire thread. Bear with me.
1) It is not necessarily illegal for minors (the actual legal term for persons under the age of 18) to keep venomous snakes in many areas.
2) If the "older" venomous keeping community does not attempt to police itself and recommend against negative impacting issues, then they will not have a leg to stand on when legislation comes up against a hobby that many of us have invested decades in. That bears thinking about for a second. Many of us have been keeping and defending our right to keep for 2 and 3 times as long as the younger keepers have been alive!
3) Telling the very people from whom you are asking advice to mind their own business and keep their mouths shut is foolishness. The only answers that you will get that way is from someone as young and inexperienced as the person asking the question!
4) I have posted this thought before and have actually seen young people act on it. If you don't like the advice that you get on this site, feel free to start your own! It is a free market. The people who come here and give advice and recommendations do not get paid to do so. They are successful zookeepers, research scientists, private keepers and even some TV personalities. I have been personally involved in building this site and organization since almost the very beginning. Disgruntled young people come and go. The older keepers come and go too, just not as loudly and self-importantly.
5) Bad advice generally gets removed.
6) Some questions don't get answered because no-one here actually knows or cares about the answer. Sorry, we never said that we know everything.
7) I, personally, was 17 when I got my first venomous snake. I went out and caught it. The significance of that is that my local hospital had the antivenom to deal with it if I did something stupid like tail a neonate. If you don't want to get called on doing something stupid, then DON'T POST IT!
8) I try very hard to keep the peace here. It doesn't always work. So, I guess the bottom line is, if you think that the negative here outweighs the good, don't contribute to the negative, just quit contributing at all. Start your own all-positive site. Please feel free to send me an email and let me know how it goes and how you managed it.
Karl H. Betz
Buzztail1@hotmail.com
Vice President
Southeastern Hot Herp Society
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RE: Underage keepers
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by vanerka on October 24, 2006
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I know this is beating a dead horse, but I am 18 and I have only handled a few venomous snakes, EDB's and a water moccasins. The first ever handled was the moccasin in AK when I went down 3 years ago. I dont own venomous due to laws in IL. I plan on going to finish school in Fl and getting a venomous permit. Even if I did currently live in fl and have a permit, I still wouldn't keep hots under a roof with my mom or little sister (12)(my parents are divorced). Although I have tried to teacher her everything I know about snakes and the rest of the reptile kingdom I still wouldn't keep hots. She knows how to handle my snakes and other repites and I know she has the knowledge to take care of my animals because I showed her. Even so, until I move out, and to a state where it is lawful to keep venomous I refuse to keep them. Even though a short time ago I was offered to trade my coulumbian red for a eastern coral or copperheads, I refused. I would be furious with my child (and the seller) if they decided to purchase a venomous. I just hope that others would make similar reasonable, and responsible choice when it comes to keeping hots. Although my comments arnt going to change anyones mind here I just dont want and bad publicity resulting from an underage keeper injury. Thats the last thing the herpetological community needs. And god knows there are lawmakers just waiting for somthing like that to happen so they could slap a ban on that so fast you wouldnt even have a chance to react. As mentioned earlier im comcerned for your safty,the saftey of others and future of our hobby in general.
sincerly - Eric
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RE: Underage keepers
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by Atrox788 on October 24, 2006
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and the above poster would fall in the category of a mature, responsible "Young" keeper.
The most important thing to remeber about this hobby is that its just not your own safety at hands, it whoever is in your house as well.
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