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Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by kacz on November 16, 2006
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A couple of recent news articles related a case in which a man was bitten by a mamba in Indianapolis. The snake was one of several venomous species that he kept in his home – a duplex! I am not questioning the merits of this particular case. Accidents can happen to the most experienced and well-intentioned keeper. Rather, I question the wisdom of maintaining venomous snakes in multiple-family dwellings. The havoc and damage that could result from the escape of a venomous reptile into someone else’s residence would, in my opinion, rise above simple negligence into the realm of a criminal act. The greater danger is attended by a greater responsibility. Does the SHHS or contributors to this site have a position on this practice?
Thanks,
Paul
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by SwampY on November 16, 2006
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could snakes be safely kept in a duplex? yes, if the hot room were escape proof as well as the cages.
were they in that case? I don't know and don't have the information to comment.
could snakes be kept in the same house with children? yes, with the right setup.
I know what you are saying though, there is a recent news item where an apartment building was evacuated and deemed too dangerous to inhabit until the escaped cobra was found. This was in canada and very recent. (personally though, I would have lived in it. I wouldn't classify it as uninhabitable -- but I'd know what to do when I encountered the snake, but that's just me)
I think this is why most states that have permit systems require facility inspections.
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by rickyduckworth on November 16, 2006
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how many people do you pass on 2-lane roads EVERY DAY who probably couldn't pass that driver's license test again, if they did in the first place?
a simple flick of the wrist and you have a 45+mph collision
everything is risky if you want it to be and everything is just a game of chance. i've kept hots for 6+ years now and i've had kids for over 5. never had an issue. no escapes, bites, etc. i'd rather not live next to stupid people regardless of their passion. they're still stupid and will usually find something to get into that the average person would avoid. how many idiots have guns. and i'm classifying carelessness as stupidity because that's what it is to me.
it's perfectly fine if the person is responsible and it's not if they're not.
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by plainblain on November 16, 2006
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Unless a keeper let's all residents of the multiple dwelling know that he/she is keeping dangerous snakes or bugs, he/she does not have the right to expose non-herps or non-bug people to the consequences if one escapes.
If the animals are kept in secret, and an escape occurrs and the animal is totally AWOL the keeper might be less likely to let everyone know that a dangerous animal is on the lose, in a timely fashion.
Just because I have hots, does not mean that I want to live next to someone who has hots. I would have to know him and trust his husbandry and keeper skills.
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by Phobos on November 17, 2006
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Chad:
I agree, yes they can be safely kept in a mulitfamily dwelling. Were they in Indianapolis? NO...One cage with a Mamba in it had a hole that a Puff Adder could fit through....I know this to be a fact. This was just one of the problems with the caging at that site.
Al
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by thedude on November 17, 2006
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Phobos,
Where are you getting your information from?
Please post if it is on the 'net.
Thanks
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by Phobos on November 17, 2006
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It's not on the net...
I have close ties to many Zoo's & Herpkeepers at Zoo as well as friends in Fish & Game/DNR in many States.
I only posted the tip(s)of a huge Iceberg in this case...
Al
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by snakeguy101 on November 18, 2006
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go on... what else happened and was it rabbts or not, i hope that whoever it was is okay now. I don't know enough about the incident to judge so i will reserve my feelings.
chris hartmann
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RE: Hots in multiple-family dwellings
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by bschott on November 20, 2006
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Here is a multi-family dwelling case....
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2004/12/31/news/local/nws03.txt
Bismarck legislator wants to make it illegal to possess venomous snakes, spiders and other creatures.
Rep. Margaret Sitte, R-Bismarck, said she is having a bill drafted in response to Bismarck police finding four deadly snakes in an apartment earlier this year.
In July, Bismarck police found four poisonous(sic) snakes -- an East African green mamba, a death adder, an albino monocle cobra and a yellow-bellied racer -- in a Bismarck apartment.
Andrew Greff and Doug Feist were charged with misdemeanor reckless endangerment for having the snakes.
Greff was sentenced to one year with all but six months suspended for having the snakes, and Feist will go to trial on the reckless endangerment charge Jan. 6 (He got the same)
====Here is the aftermath=====
http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=81636
(might require free registration)
BISMARCK - North Dakota's House has agreed to ban private ownership of poisonous snakes, responding to an incident in which two Bismarck men ordered deadly reptiles over the Internet and then showed them off.
Rep. Dwight Wrangham, R-Bismarck, said the legislation permits someone to keep a poisonous snake only if he or she has a permit from the state veterinarian, intends to use the reptile for education, and has the ability to handle and care for it. The bill is HB1326.
Last July, police found four deadly snakes in a Bismarck apartment. Andrew Greff and Doug Feist were charged with misdemeanor reckless endangerment.
The men told authorities they felt safe with the snakes because they lived near a hospital, where they could go if they were bitten.
Representatives chuckled as Wrangham described the reasons for the bill, which was approved 88-0 on Wednesday. It now goes to the Senate for additional review. (which it did pass)
"These individuals had taken these snakes to at least one school, under the false premise of getting them identified," Wrangham said. "They knew what they were. They just took them there so they had an excuse to show people what they had."
=========Turned into This==========
http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/59-2005/bill-text/FAGH0600.pdf
NORTH DAKOTA Bill number HB 1326: PASSED
Description: Restricts the Possession of Venomous Reptiles
Summary: Limits the possession of venomous reptiles to those who have obtained a permit from the state veterinarian. Permits would be issued only on a showing that the animal is possessed for educational purposes and that the possessor can properly care for, house, feed, handle and (if necessary) euthanize the animal. Zoos, "wildlife preserves," schools and research facilities would be presumed to meet the educational requirement for a permit. Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor penalty.
Update: This bill passed the House and Senate and was signed into law by the Governor on 04/11/05.
====Now====
There is a bill currently being drafted in the state House that would allow the state to charge those selling venomous snakes to North Dakota residences. The sellers would be possibily hit with a class A felony (possible but talk has been said it may be a Class B, C or even a class A Misdomeaner. No solid evidence on how things are worded yet). A call to my Representive didn't come up with anything but he could confirm there was a bill being drafted but it was just an idea on paper at this point.
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