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Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by Cro on July 11, 2007
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The thread below reminded me on somthing from a few years back.
I was horseback riding in the Bridger - Teton National Forest, and the guide and I were talking about snakebite. He said that they often see Prairie Rattlesnakes when they lead horse back trips back into the Wilderness Area. He had a concern that if someone was bitten by a snake, that it could be a 20 to 30 mile horseback ride back to the vehicles, and would take many hours.
At the time, they were not allowed to carry Cell Phones, or Short Wave Walkie Talkies back into the Wilderness Area, because of Federal Law. Assuming that you could get a signal, it would seem that calling out would be the quickest way to get someone airlift rescued if they were snakebitten, or chewed on by a grizzly bear, or fell off their horse and injured.
So, the first question is do the Federal Wildlife Refuges still have this archaic Law against having Cell Phones, and Talkie Walkies inside of Refuges ? Any Federal Fish and Wildlife folks aboard today ?
And the second question is how many folks here would break that law and carry along a cell phone or commercial band talkie, just in case someone was bitten by a snake or otherwise injured in a Wilderness Area, such as canoeing through the Okefenokee Swamp ?
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by thedude on July 11, 2007
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http://www.wilderness.net/index.cfm?fuse=NWPS&sec=legisAct#5
Has the full text of the Federal Wilderness Area Act. It makes no mention of mobile communication equipment. Every time I have been to Wilderness Areas there has never been a mention of cell phone or other communication equipment bans on the signs at the enterances, just a ban on vehicles (human and non human powered) and roads. In most Wilderness Areas cell phones are useless due to poor tower coverage (cell towers are not allowed in WAs). If I had a guide service I would invest in a sat phone.
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by thedude on July 11, 2007
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Copied and pasted so you can get right to it:
PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN USES
(c) Except as specifically provided for in this chapter, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this Act and, except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area.
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by Cro on July 11, 2007
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Hopefully, they have changed the old law.
If someone on horseback had climbed to the top of the nearest mountain, or someone in the Okefenokee Refuge had climbed a tree, there is a chance a signal would have gotten out.
Especially if it was from a commercial band talkie, although, in some places, even a cell phone might make it out. Sattalite phones are unfortunatly very expensive now, so it is not likely many outfitters would have them.
I also wonder if someone used one of the little portable locator devices that pilots have in their planes in case of emergency, if those would be searched for on a timely basis if there was a signal recieved by who ever monitors that stuff ?
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by Chris_Harper on July 11, 2007
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And then, there's always satellite phones. I'm not quite sure where the mentality that "when you're in a place where there's no one governmentally tasked to protect you, you don't have the right nor the ability to protect yourself", i.e., no guns, no cell phones - comes from.
CH
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by LarryDFishel on July 11, 2007
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Actually, I'm pretty sure there is no prohibition on cell phones. The guide in question most likely misunderstood or got his info from someone who misunderstood the above mentioned prohibition of cell phone TOWERS/TRANSCEIVERS, which is probably there mainly because they would have to allow phone company trucks in.
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by Cro on July 11, 2007
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Larry, the law was there, however, this was like 15 years ago. Perhaps it has changed now. But back then there were signs posted that said electronic devices were prohibited in Wilderness Areas, and the guides were awair of it and concerned about it back then.
That time was the early days of cell phones, so things could have changed some over the years.
But back then, the law clearly stated that devices of that sort were prohibited in the Wildlife Refuges in Montana, and other areas like the Okefenokee Swamp.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by thedude on July 11, 2007
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Further Searching led me to this NFS doc. excerpt.
Stewardship of Wilderness in the National Forests
A Forest Service Desk Guide for Managers
Management Practices
Cell phone technology has expanded to the point where search and rescue concerns lead to some travelers carrying cell phones as emergency insurance. Proposals to build cell phone towers in wilderness citing the need for cell phone coverage in emergencies are not uncommon. In addition, some units have proposed construction and/or maintenance of radio repeater facilities in wilderness to insure adequate communications for employees, contractors, and volunteers in wilderness for safety purposes.
Cell phone towers in wilderness are not constructed for visitor use while in the wilderness. Instead, managers make every effort to provide information to visitors on the inherent naturally occurring risks of wilderness use.
Adequate communications for personnel working in wilderness is essential to meet safety objectives. Managers typically use one or more systems of 2-way radios, cell phones, satellite phones with maps of known ‘dead spots’ and routine check-in procedures to insure necessary communication capabilities.
The construction of cell phone towers in wilderness to provide service outside of wilderness is not allowed.
There is a variation of this issue which involves personal use of cell phones, satellite phones, walkie-talkies, GPS units and a variety of other electronic devices which can distract from the wilderness experience of others. These items, considered ‘personal use’ items, are not prohibited by law or agency policy, even if they contain small motors.
(TWA Section 4(c), FSM 2323.34g)
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by Cro on July 11, 2007
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Vinnei, thanks for the update.
It would seem that the statement "Managers typically use one or more systems of 2-way radios, cell phones, satellite phones with maps of known ‘dead spots’ and routine check-in procedures to insure necessary communication capabilities," would suggest the folks who mangage the Wilderness Areas don't mind using those types of devices to keep in touch.
While It would be dissapointing to hear a cell phone ring while canoeing in the Okefenokee or hiking in the Teton Wilderness, the idea of being able to reach out to the outside world would still be tempting.
I can understand the idea of no towers in wilderness areas. However, I do not agree with the idea of banning the phone devices being carried by folks who venture into these areas for use in emergencies.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Cell Phones for Snakebite Treatment ?
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by nightwolf on July 19, 2007
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The locator in an aircraft is called an Emergency Locator Transmitter , or ELT . They're not that small.
If you set it off you would get search and rescue planes looking for a downed plane . They would find you sooner or later , but would have no way of knowing that you needed help , or why . They wouldn't even be sure it was you sending the signal . However you could get hold of the nearest FAA officials and ask them , maybe they would be willing to work with you on this . The ELT is built to withstand an awful beating , and will be detected from allmost anywhere .
BTW any local private pilot would probably show you the unit , every registered aircraft has to have one .
Kenny
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