subspecies - Experts Forum at VenomousReptiles.org

subspecies	Reply
by gaboonviper4 on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
i need someone to teach me or tell me a website on scalecounting. i know it is a snouted cobra but there are subspecies on this snake. i have the scale count but i dont know what scales im a looking for. thanks

RE: subspecies	Reply
by earthguy on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
Its pretty straight forward, once you've done it. Which particular scales are you curious about? Most scale counts are done with body scales (not ventrals) at midbody. Labial (lip) scales are either Supra (above) or Infra (below). Ocular (eye) scales are either pre (front) or post (after). Anyway, it makes sense if you know a little Latin. Which particular scales are you looking to identify?

RE: subspecies	Reply
by Atrox788 on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
The latest taxon info out about the species puts the snouted cobra as its own species and the banded Egyptian or just banded as its own species. Check out venomus snake systematics by Wolfgang Wuster. Its a great source of taxon related info and a link can be found under educational links on this site.

RE: subspecies	Reply
by Cro on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
Trying to find Wolfgang`s site from the Links Page here can be quite a challenge. Try this instead: http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Publications.htm Best Regards JohnZ

RE: subspecies	Reply
by 23bms on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
The "Banded" or "Banded Egyptian" is just color phase of Naja annulifera. It is not a separate species or subspecies. Broadley and Wuster's paper on annulifera and anchietae, "A review of the southern African "non-spitting" cobras", may be found at: http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/%7Ebss166/Publications/2004_Naja_annulifera.pdf Naja anchietae, a former subspecies of annulifera, now has full species status. It, too, has a banded phase as noted in the above paper. jrb

RE: subspecies	Reply
by Atrox788 on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
I was unaware that what is now known as naja anchietae has a banded phase. I have always heard them referred to as ssp of each other and that the biggest difference was one has bands, one dose not. So are there N.annulifera without bands as well as anchietae with bands? I admit all I saw was the brief paragraph stated on WW's site and I hadn't read the paper. As for the banded Egyptian comment, that was in reference to it common name. N.annulifera has long been called the banded Egyptian in both the pet trade and in zoological institutions. I had a trio of so called N.anchietae a few years back that were completely patternless. I now regret not having performed scale counts on these animals to find out their true identity. At the time I was told they were simply a sub species. Do the banded N.anchietae look similar to banded N.annulifera? Taxonomy gets more and more confusing with each passing day. Thanks for the link. I shall now go edumacate myself properly.

RE: subspecies	Reply
by gaboonviper4 on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
thanks bms that helped me out a lot. i know that is is a snouted cobra, but i know there are subspecies, it is brownish yellow with a black band starting after the head throught the hood area. it is a juv. again thanks for the help

RE: subspecies	Reply
by Atrox788 on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
BTW, the paper seems to state that banded anchietae were found in the southern part of their range. This is were they hybrid with annulifera according to the map given. I wonder if this is a result of hybrid specimens are does it realy represent a banded phase N.anchietae. The authors mention that minimal hybridization occurs in cretin areas. Based on the description of coloration and juvenile pattern it would seem that N.annulifera is definitely the most seen in US collection. I am curious to learn the ID of the OP's snakes. This paper gives scale count variations and very detailed drawings. If you have a shed skin I am sure you can tell what your animals are based on this paper. Interesting yet aggravating stuff indeed LOL

RE: subspecies	Reply
by Atrox788 on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
Gaboonviper, The paper states that there are no sub species. You have either N.annulifera or N.anchietea. N.anchietae was formally known as Naja annulifera anchietae and is now recognized as its own species.

RE: subspecies	Reply
by Atrox788 on November 7, 2007	Mail this to a friend!
One last thing. "The "Banded" or "Banded Egyptian" is just color phase of Naja annulifera. It is not a separate species or subspecies. Broadley and Wuster's paper on annulifera and anchietae, "A review of the southern African "non-spitting" cobras", may be found at:" When I said banded Egyptian I was referring to Naja annulifera not that it was a separate form or ssp.

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