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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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oops I misread your statement. I thought you just said "a leash is NOW considered a barrier"
you in fact said " a leash is NOT considered a barrier...
Apologies.
T-
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by tigers9 on February 25, 2008
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>>Those owner pictures are a fine example of irresponsible ownership.
I'm sure those homes are not escape proof? Big cats watching tv...eat owner, walk through glass window, eat neighbor...oh wait, just infringed on someone elses rights didn't we? >>
The pictures you are referring to are my own pics in my own house. In the future it would be nice if you researched the issue more and asked few questions to get the FACTS straight instead of assuming and calling me irresponsible based on your feelings.
My country house is inside hot wire (electrified) chainlink fence with V-arm barb wire at the top. The electric wire is at the top and at the bottom, to keep animals in and intruders out. I happen to have better tranquilizing rifle and animal capture equipment than our local animal control, I also own big caliber guns and rifles for the case of emergency. I am fully licensed by Nevada department of wildlife to keep native cats such as bobcat and cougar.
<<Your telling me that video link isn't trying to pull on peoples heartstrings, tell half truths and manipulate the public perception? Like I said, Identical to AR groups...absolutely, identical. >>
The video u criticize is very personal, like all REXANOEXOTICS youtube videos, I wrote the script and produced the draft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yDlg2Ly4v0
The neighbor in the video, doctor/military man Fred was my neighbor who was taking care of my animals if I wasn’t home. The video is not a fiction story, it is my own personal TRUE story. If it pulls on peoples heartstrings than be it. To this day his widow lives here and when their family (grandkids, etc…) visit, they come to see and visit the animals. The other neighbor (not in video) just had heart attack about 2 months ago and few days after he got home he felt bad, they called ambulance, turned out be just a bad reaction to drugs. On the way back paramedics stopped at my house to tell us how the wife was proudly showing them pics of my big cats as if they were her own grandkids. My neighbors are wonderful sweet people who consider it a privilege to wake up to a lion’s roar and they don’t feel threatened at all, they are our biggest supporters and I wouldn’t do anything to hurt them.
Z
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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If you are one of the responsible ones....great!
The point is still the same.
In your opinion, Does every captive big cat live under the same security? -remember majority rules- it's not always fair...
You are all about "Responsible exotic ownership" right? So where do YOU draw the line between Responsible and Irresponsible? Do you leave it up to each individual owner to decide what is a safe environment, interaction?
The point I made in the beginning is this: Work with the legislators, public, media don't attack and ridicule them.
T-
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by tigers9 on February 25, 2008
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The people I know and visited personally have safe cat compounds, yes. If not, I would attempt to help them fix it.
As for working with the media, again, why do you assume I don’t???
When my county was passing animal zoning ordinance in fall 2007, and some idiot made a prank phone calls about tiger at large, media here didn’t overreact, WHY, because I worked with them before and keep doing it, below is a letter editor of local paper wrote about the tiger at large and visiting with our big cats:
http://www.rexano.org//NewsArchivePages/wildlife_ordinance_smith.pdf
As for legislation, when it comes to state and federal, money talks, but I do my best to help exotic community.
Please don’t take this as an attack, just my personal observations, being the messenger of bad news, but you are totally out of the loop regarding what is going on.
I believe most exotic owners are good, small minority sucks but thanks to AR and hyper media, by repeating and sensationalizing the stories they make it look like we have an epidemic of exotic owners high on drugs leash walking an alligator thru kindergarten
Z
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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This is where I got my information that you are going about this stuff all wrong.
Just sent to Rodda roddag@usgs.gov, and fwd to other mentioned in press release:
reedr@usgs.gov
skip_snow@nps.gov
Dear Mr. Rodda
I read your report on pythons
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1875
and was not surprised that in the next few days media run with this hysterical claim as if it was just a review of another ‘Snakes on a plane’ movie.
However, your report is being abused and can cause perfectly good pet snakes to be banned for no good reason, other than knee jerk reaction to bad reporting and misuse of your paper/map.
I realize you wrote in your report that it ‘COULD’ happen, but crazy media translates it as ‘IT WILL HAPPEN” and totally ignore the time frame of almost 100 years, when people will have more to worry about than snakes if climate really goes hot.
Maybe hunger will be a major issue and they will be happy to have these snakes as a food source?
What about the vegetation, prey animals, etc…too many unknowns…
In your paper you also refer to ‘other giant constrictor snakes ‘.
How will you prevent Boa constrictors from Mexico to migrate to USA if out government can’t even prevent humans to come here as illegals?
Serioulsy, I think you need to do another press release telling the crazy hyper media that this map is extremely premature and is just your estimate with many unknowns and tell them to SHUT UP please.
Sincerely
Zuzana Kukol
www/rexano.org
Not one thing in there made sense...you use illegal immigrants as ammunition? Boas, migrating to the US? come on...
So, Where do you draw the line between responsible and irresponsible owners?
What in your opinion should be done about the irresponsible ones? If in fact there are some out there as you seem to not know of any?
I in fact believe that you are incredibly naive to what happens out there. Not every story makes the news.
You have obviously surrounded yourself with good people, great.
Obviously, you would be surprised how many people are walking around with Green Mambas in plastic containers in colleges. Keeping Large Cats in apartment complexes... Alligators on leashes in kindergarten...exotics do establish themselves in this country.
You seem to refuse to admit that there is a problem???
There really is a problem out there, for you to not be aware of that, my suggestion would be to use some of your research skills for what is really going on. Then maybe proposing a solution of sorts.
It may not be worth the governmental attention it has received but guess what, it gets it. So what do you suggest?
Again I refer you to your statement
"I realize you wrote in your report that it ‘COULD’ happen, but crazy media translates it as ‘IT WILL HAPPEN” and totally ignore the time frame of almost 100 years, when people will have more to worry about than snakes if climate really goes hot. "
where is your FACTS to support your above statements? Or are you sensationalizing your opinion...attempting to force your way of life on others? You know AR stuff or like I said Animal ownership Rights stuff.. same technique, same bs, same goofy logic.
Understanding some of these principles might explain why many "professionals" take a stance similar to mine. We do in fact see, deal with and have to listen to so much more garbage and irresponsiblity than the "amateur" could ever even fathom!
So please, don't think I am out of the loop...til you do a bit more research yourself...
T-
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by jared on February 25, 2008
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The problem i have noticed in both sides of the arena is this. There are good and bad animal keepers Period. There are probably just as many bad pit bull keepers as there are good does this justify banning all ownership and taking these animals away from those who are capable keepers. But those who are capable will be permitted (in a utopian society). The fact of the matter (like it or not) is this most societies AZA, AVMA,HSUS, etc it IS a good ol boy system. I HAD A VERY reputable herpetologist/professor tell me point blank " personally anyone who doesn't have a phd in biological science shouldnt even have a snake" WHAT and this is one of the guys whos goin to be permitting LOWly old herpers like myself in others.Its not what you know with alot of these groups, ITS WHO you know. THeres flaws to it, in that herpers are like any other community. There are LARGE numbers of herpers for one reason or another who dont like certain members of the community, not based on there ability or said skill with the animal, simply based on not liking them. In which case these guys though up to the skill level may be denied simply because "ya aint one of us". Furthermore, having SEEN FIRST HAND some of these AZA experts work venomous snakes made me think the 16 yo at petland was more qualified in baggin cobras. I for one, CANT STAND and DONT Believe in further govt interaction with private american citizens, and though i do see reasons for people (again on both sides of the permit) i do not think should work with snakes, that is there right (as long as it doesnt infringe on the rights of others) and if they die from it, Lesson learned, and your Frickin family cant sue for you not knowing what ur doing. There is too much hand holding goin on in this country right now, I mean when does it become outright communism when they decide to monitor how much you go to the bathroom a day? Just my .2 enjoy, c you guys in columbia lol
Jared
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by tigers9 on February 25, 2008
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<<by stopgetinpopped >>
<<Not one thing in there made sense...you use illegal immigrants as ammunition? Boas, migrating to the US? come on...>>
Boas don’t understand that Mexico is a separate country from USA, if snakes can cross FL state lines to other US states, why can’t boas cross Mexico/USA country line???
<<So, Where do you draw the line between responsible and irresponsible owners? >>
Protecting public safety and obeying current laws of which we have enough, they just need to be enforced, and since majority of deaths/injuries are to us exotic owners/keepers, this hobby shouldn’t be treated any different than other hobby where there is a potential of injury or death.
You can kill yourself snow skiing but you can also run into somebody and kill them as well. Life is not 100 percent safe, we shouldn’t ban something because it appears unsafe but in reality it is NOT an epidemic.
<<What in your opinion should be done about the irresponsible ones? If in fact there are some out there as you seem to not know of any? >>
Since by my definition irresponsible owner is a law breaker, enforce the current laws.
<<Obviously, you would be surprised how many people are walking around with Green Mambas in plastic containers in colleges. Keeping Large Cats in apartment complexes... Alligators on leashes in kindergarten...exotics do establish themselves in this country. You seem to refuse to admit that there is a problem??? >>
My understanding is that examples you listed are already illegal activities, like tigers in apartments or dumping exotic pets in the wild, like I said above, no need for more laws, enforce the current ones, increase penalties on the bad ones, but don’t punish the whole industry who just happens to have the same species or breed of dog. My motto is: “Regulate/punish for deeds, NOT breeds or species.
<<Understanding some of these principles might explain why many "professionals" take a stance similar to mine. We do in fact see, deal with and have to listen to so much more garbage and irresponsiblity than the "amateur" could ever even fathom! >>
Just wondering, if a pet owner gets bitten by their exotics, ‘professionals’ like you calls him/her an idiot who shouldn’t have these animals in the first place and uses these accidents to further their anti pet agenda; so why is it OK for you to get bitten by a venomous snake and still call yourself and expert and still have hypocritical attitude toward the rest , most of whom were never bitten in the first place? Why this double standard?
Z
==
http://kotatv.com/Global/story.asp?s=5709730
Curator bitten by venomous snake
Updated: Nov 26, 2006 03:00 AM PST
Terry Phillip, snake curator at Reptile Gardens
Western Massasauga rattlesnake that struck Terry
Cindy Davis
It's not like he hasn't had some close calls as the curator of world's largest reptile collection.
In any given week, Terry Phillip interacts with about a thousand venomous snakes, but October 24th was different.
"It literally was a split second of misjudgment. It's like if you work in an office with paper, you know how to avoid a paper cut, you still get them every now and again, and it's exactly like that."
As he was preparing to package and ship a Western Massasauga rattlesnake to another zoo, he noticed some swelling. When he went in for a closer look, she struck.
"By the time I left the building, which was about 15 steps, there was a pretty noticeable burning sensation around the bite site, and then by the time I got to the office, which was probably 2 minutes, there was an increasing amount of burning pain. You could just feel your finger filling up, like swelling. By the time I got to the hospital, it was basically like I was sticking my finger in a campfire, and just letting it sit there."
An IV was started, and Terry was given six viles of anti-venom first, then another four, for a total of ten viles in ten hours.
Although Reptile Gardens stocks $50,000 worth of exotic anti-venom, Terry went to Regional Hospital for the treatment because the snake that bit him is native to the United States.
"The anti-venom at the hospital is 3 times more expensive then the stuff we had, but it takes 5 or 6 months to get the import permits, documents, and buy the anti-venom, and deal with a third-world country, and all that sort of thing, and it was a lot easier to use their if we can."
He spent a total of 36 hours in hospital care, but the venomous bite affected more than Terry's finger, he says the venom's move through the lymphatic system was excruciating.
A month later, he's still experiencing some of the effects.
"The bones on the back of my hand are still pretty tender. This here is completely numb, I can't feel it, and it's rubber."
It was a wake up call or reminder that he can't get complacent. Fortunately, the snake that bit him is considered non-fatal.
"If it happened with a Sawscale Viper or a Cobra, it could have been a lot worse."
While Terry doesn't blame her for the bite, he's doubly sure he's out of her striking range today.
The terms of their relationship have changed though.
"I actually made a deal with the snakes a long time ago that if they don't bite me, I won't bite them, so the deal's off now."
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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Jared,
Very well said.
Z- You almost started to make some sense and show a shred of professionalism and understanding of your environment around you.
Until of course the intended personal attack of
"Just wondering, if a pet owner gets bitten by their exotics, ‘professionals’ like you calls him/her an idiot who shouldn’t have these animals in the first place and uses these accidents to further their anti pet agenda; so why is it OK for you to get bitten by a venomous snake and still call yourself and expert and still have hypocritical attitude toward the rest , most of whom were never bitten in the first place? Why this double standard?"
To satisfy your wonder...I don't want to speak for other 'professionals' but for me in your example above. I would call an idiot an idiot. Professional or not, I would not claim that 'everyone" who is bitten is an idiot and should not own/work with those animals. I would however, say "that was stupid, you were being stupid" etc. big difference. but professional or not if they were an idiot, they would be labeled as such.
Also, I have never referred to myself as an 'expert'
Also, I don't have a hypocrytical attitude toward the rest.
So, I don't see a double standard. I see that you are trying to "take the gloves off" to save public face and I'm not going to take the bait.
I would like to see your FACTS that I or another "professional" called someone an idiot who indeed was not... do some more research as there are a few statements from me about idiots out there...you should be able to find them.
"Boas don’t understand that Mexico is a separate country from USA, if snakes can cross FL state lines to other US states, why can’t boas cross Mexico/USA country line??? "
What? Do you understand anything about ecology in general and Boa Constrictor ecology in particular? That doesn't even earn a response it's so dumb.
And no, not all the examples I had listed were already illegal.
I agree that enforcement of current laws is vitally important, however if there needs to be clarification of existing laws to be more realistic, whats wrong with that?
and last but not least no one used the word 'epidemic' You are using sensationalistic words to describe your viewpoint...ever thought about being a journalist for the media?
Debating with you is like pissing in the wind...it makes me feel better but I still have piss on my shoes.
You are utterly blinded by your naivete
T-
On the subject of the USFWS inquiry, they never used the word ban. More sensational writing...you really should be a journalist!
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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oh yeah..."anti-pet agenda?" You make is sound so organized.. I'm sure there are those in the field that don't like pet ownership. That is there opinons, nothing more.
But an "agenda"? shoot, I wonder if I missed the meeting, cause we gotta git dem darn aminal pet lubbers!
I have hundreds of 'amateur' animal owning friends...please don't tell them I'm working on our agenda to take em away!
T-
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RE: is this safe cobra handling in public?
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by tigers9 on February 25, 2008
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I wrote previously: "Boas don’t understand that Mexico is a separate country from USA, if snakes can cross FL state lines to other US states, why can’t boas cross Mexico/USA country line??? "
by stopgetinpopped replied: What? Do you understand anything about ecology in general and Boa Constrictor ecology in particular? That doesn't even earn a response it's so dumb
My current reply:
THANK YOU
I was just using the hysterical map reasoning, if the map can claim that ambush predator like humongous Burmese python can come here to dry and hot and barren Mohave desert and flourish, by the same (stupid?) reasoning a Boa constrictor from Mexico could do the same.
Either both can happen or they are both dumb?
Z
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