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Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by LordViperTX on March 10, 2008
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I cannot stand it anymore, and feel the need to say something. I am tired of fighting for our hobby, contributing my hard-earned money to organizations helping defend OUR right to keep reptiles (especially hots), driving to the state capital and speaking on OUR behalf, and everything else I do, only to watch people in their own pursuit of thrills, fame, profit, or whatever else doing things that only hasten the end of legal pursuit of our hobby.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m no hero or martyr. Many, many people have put far more hours, miles, and money into these endeavors. I’m simply an average venomous snake keeper, who has made (what should be) average contributions to the effort to protect our right to privately keep venomous reptiles. I have a properly equipped and protected hot room, with a nice collection kept in safe, locking enclosures. I have warning notices on the doors/windows of said room to protect first responders. When I interact with my animals I follow protocols and use the proper equipment. I have a bite protocol book to help with treatment should I ever get tagged and, while it is a possibility, I don’t do things to increase the risk.
If you don’t think that legislators and activists (not to mention plain old ophidophobes) don’t see these actions and notice what happens, you are nuts. Every time one of us gets tagged the media is rife to jump all over it and sensationalize it. The biggest argument that activists use for motorcycle helmet laws is the fact that injured people are a drain on our medical system and resources. In this way they circumvent the motorcyclist’s right to make his OWN choices about what risks he wishes to take with his own life/health.
Every time a keeper is bit they talk about how he had “poisonous” snakes in his house. That there could be some living right next door to YOU and you don’t know it, and that hospitals don’t stock antivenin for many of these animals. (even though most zoos do) They do all they can to get folks terrified and wanting our hobby outlawed because the government should protect them. Every bite is a chance for the media to sensationalize the situation. Every sensationalized story gleans more support for those who wish to take away our rights. This hobby WILL be brought to an end. The ophidophobes at large will drive it to happen because they outnumber us 1000 to 1. All we can do is enjoy it while we can still, legally, pursue it.
The antics on Letterman a couple of weeks ago also further the cause and support of those who want our hobby illegalized. The comments (by a supposed expert) that “one drop of their venom can kill an elephant” only go to further terrorize society that these animals are far more dangerous than they are. Now anyone who knows I have cobras, and who saw that program, will believe that even an expert cannot control them (even though Bob Clark isn’t a hot keeper, and shouldn’t have been there doing that) and that “one drop of their venom can kill an elephant.” Thanks Jack and Bob.
Putting the fact that someone who endangers our hobby is a friend, business associate, or whatever other relationship you may have with these types of people above YOUR OWN right to keep reptiles is just imbecilic. That is like fighting for the rights of responsible gun owners and then riding around with your “buddy” while he shoots up road signs from a moving car. A sane, responsible person would look that “buddy” in the eye and tell him “If you continue to do this I can no longer associate with you, and I will tell others that you’re doing this so that perhaps they can persuade you to stop behaving in a way that undermines my efforts, and gives more “ammunition” and motivation to those who work endeavor to take away my rights.”
The ONLY thing that is going to have any effect is peer pressure. If we scold and shun anyone in the community who behave irresponsibly, including freehandling (and glorifying it), shipping/selling hots illegally, or anything else that endangers and/or poorly portrays our hobby, perhaps such people will think twice about it, or at LEAST stop making videos of such behavior and posting them on You Tube.
As long as we take that "Yeah, I know...but he's a really great guy" attitude toward those who selfishly behave as if they are the only hot keeper in the world, the closer we all drive ourselves to the day we will lose our right to keep these amazing animals.
If we turn our backs on those who think only of themselves and make them pariahs perhaps we can get these folks to adjust their outlook and “come into the fold” and have some appreciation and respect for the efforts to try and preserve and protect our rights.
Just a rant…and some food for thought…
No doubt some of these "friends of the irresponsible" will come to their defense here. They will throw doubt on this post and defend their "friends." To them I say this; Go ahead and show yourselves. Let everyone see who the folks are that put friendship with someone like this before all of our rights.
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by yoyoing on March 10, 2008
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I agree with your observation about the double standards employed based on personality. Some people can get away with posting a picture of themselves holding a snake and looking at the camera with no problems. Others get massacred for the same, based soley on established reputation.
I do not know of instances where a bite in Florida has lead to an argument for legislation in Florida or another state. Correct me if I am wrong on this.
The AR people will be active because that is what they do, not because of any real documentation to back up their claims. Couldn't an argument be made that freehadling actually demonstrates how safe "poisonous" snakes are? Not that I want to go there, but making a point based on what appears logical and the actual reality of what is happening may not coincide.
I do respect the work you claim to be doing and wish you luck in your State.
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by tigers9 on March 10, 2008
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Truth is by compiling statistics, we already discredited the AR and some almighty exotic $CAM$tuaries claims that these privately held exotic animals are a public safety issue.
Once you get them in the corner on the safety issue, they attack from another angle, that keeping them in captivity is abusive and that they shall be free in the wild.
Then they use the BS that ‘illegal exotic trade is multibillion dollar buisness’, never mind this is overseas and not in the USA and mostly involves wild animals killed for parts, not our pets, so is this the wild these AR want the animals live in, a death sentence in the wild is better than safe life in captivity?
I asked few AR persons if they rather see these animals go extinct in the wild than saved in captivity, and they answered YES, they rather see them extinct than saved in captivity, as to them even big cage size of TX is still a cage, so this argument ends up being emotional, kind of like religious and abortion discussions, nobody can win, as there are 'some' good and bad arguments for both, pro and con.
Vicious circle.
Z
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by LordViperTX on March 10, 2008
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The issue with freehandling isn't really the appearance of the act itself, and your observation. Your point is actually arguable, as it could be looked at as a way to show that snakes don't "attack" as ophidophobes would like to think.
My issue with freehandling is that you are probably increasing the risk of a bite by 1000%. I have seen video or photos of four high-profile herpers in Florida freehandling hots...three of the four were doing so with O hannahs. A bite often results in media attention. Media attention = sensationalism. Sensationalism = public hysteria. Public hysteria = pushing of legislators to act.
The condensed formula: Venomous bite = pushing of legislators to act.
And THAT is the issue. In respect of our fellow hobbyists (aside from health reasons) we should do ALL we can to PREVENT bites that the media will capitalize upon. Even if it is worth it to YOU to experience the thrill and adrenalin of freehandling a cobra, it is not worth enough to ME to watch YOU risking MY rights in doing so. YOU get the payoff, I come one step closer to having my rights stripped away.
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by LordViperTX on March 10, 2008
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Incidentally, I also own an O. hannah. I use a hook now as she's a juvie. Later on she will get a shift box. Further on and she gets a two-level enclosure with a divider between levels. I'm not afraid of her, but I'm respectful. Were I to get tagged by a King Cobra where I live it would be major news, and likely make it's way to the Dallas/Ft Worth media.
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by yoyoing on March 10, 2008
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I would personally never free handle a snake. The issue is whether this endangers the hobby by encouraging legislation, and I don't see the connection. I sometimes enjoy the antics of those "bad boys" of the venomous community. The fact that snake bites are newsworthy illustrates the point that they are an exception to the norm.
Regardless, keep up the good fight with the AR folks. I was into a running battle with one such individual and it was hopeless. She finally offered to "agree to disagree". She did not offer this option to the individuals and institutions she and her cronies tortured with protests and such.
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by richardduckworth on March 10, 2008
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when you finally realize that it's a fight that snake lovers can't win, and can only prolong, then you realize that nothing really matters.
the average person hates snakes, plain and simple. even fewer respect them. even fewer see them as "pet material".
it's already been proven that if a government wants to abolish the keeping of reptiles, they will do it and have no problem doing it, no matter how sneaky, because the majority supports them.
if there were 2 incidents a year, that would be 2 incidents too much. they'd sensationalize the natural bites and still, you have people hating snakes, others fanning those flames and the same result.
it's a lost cause. it's not a fair fight. it's not even a fight on their side. they're not fighting us, they either do as they please or listen to us out of the goodness of their hearts. they don't HAVE to do a thing though and it's about money.
if gun rights weren't part of the constitution, they'd be gone too.
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by Rob_Carmichael on March 10, 2008
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If we treated our hobby like the falconry community I doubt we'd have problems - no show boating, annual inspections/permit fees, serious folks who take their avocation very seriously and weed out those who do it for the wrong reasons (self policing), etc. It's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison but provides a good model for how we might approach our hobby. Our herp hobby is ridiculous - too many nut jobs, too many unscrupulous wholesalers/breeders/keepers, just too much B.S. Throw in the free handlers who make headline news and its no wonder that we are not taken seriously and why we see our rights being taken away state by state. You have teenagers bragging about their pet venomous reptiles, you have escaped venomous reptiles in urban areas, and on and on. It's really quite amazing that its still even legal to own venomous snakes as a private individual (thankfully, there are some incredible and responsible individuals who keep hots and that gives me a sliver of hope). Thank goodness I have a facility where I can keep them legally.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
www.girconservation.com
www.robcarmichaelreptiles.com
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by soberwolf on March 10, 2008
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Wow we stepped into a deep subject here. As for the comment on POISONOUS snakes... Never heard of it.
Freehandling looks cool and sells.. I always tell my daughter when she wants to climb on the outside of the playground equipment "be careful what you do . The little ones will copy you" What I am getting at is people that have handled reptiles all their life might not mind risking their own A## by freehandling. But to broadcast it like it's with little risk is IRRESPONSIBLE to say the least. Too often people say "I can do that".BANG!!!!!!
So I do deffinately dont condon freehandling..Mostly because of people not identifying the true risk involved. And the fact of people copying because it's cool or manly.. People often mistake being stupid as being crazy..
Hell Kerry, as far as the media. Thats what they live for.. I dont hardly watch the news anymore. It is so one sided. Wether it be the war, politics or tragedy. The media is all about ratings. Bummer but, tragedy sells..Wouldnt it be nice if for once the media told us the good and bad with say, Politicians or daily things of importance. Aint gonna happen anytime soon.
Just like the scumdiver topic earlier. Someone that watched too many episodes of "Croc Hunter".. Now he wants to look like SOMEDODY.. What a ditz..
So anyways folks. There are always going to be idiots. Fact of life . Ya cant change it... But.. the silver lining is that there are folks (like so many here) that strive to educate the uneducated. Thats what this site seems to be about to me anyways. If you cant beat them, join them.. What I mean is contact the local media and expose the wonderful side of Herpatolgy, or conservation. What ever it is you are into.. Hell a couple of years ago the Phoenix Herp Society set up at a halloween event at our church. So it can be done.
We can try to fight the media and legislation till we are blue in the face. Folks we CAN NOT win with a fighting attitude.. Good exposure and education from people that know what they are talking about will eventually weed out the idiots like crotchdiver (if he doesnt kill himself first).. When someone gets bit in your state .. Contact the media immediately and offer them the truth. They just might bite.(no pun intended) (really) lol...There is a wealth of knowledge in here.. People want to see that too . They might be frightened by the big bad snake but, they are also fascinated by it too.
Kerry you have a beautiful collection.. Maybe someone with the media might be interested in seeing them. Use the exposure to your advantage. Shelby
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RE: Reckless endangerment of our hobby
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by soberwolf on March 10, 2008
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John, I'd vote for ya but quit pickin on the little kids kitty cats..hehehe.......................Shelby
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