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RE: Venomous
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by BGF on January 4, 2003
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Inland taipan (Oxyuranus microlepidotus) is more toxic than any other land (or sea) snake.
Cheers
Bryan
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
Deputy Director (Research)
Australian Venom Research Unit
Department of Pharmacology
University of Melbourne
Parkville, Vic
3010 Australia
Phone 61 3 8344 7753
Fax 61 3 9348 2048
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RE: Venomous
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by Snakeman1982 on January 5, 2003
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Hello Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry,
First I'll say that I have a lot of respect for you and am by no means trying to question your authority in the field of venom research. Which would you say is most dangerous to get bit by with a serious bite? Drop per drop the venom of the Inland Taipan is more potent but which would you think would be easier to survive with and with out antivenin? Apparently, black mambas don't dry bite and I am not sure how many confirmed people have been bitten by the inland taipan but I am pretty sure that none have died in the last twenty or so years of recorded bite histories. Seems to me that since only a couple of people die every year in the entire country of Australia and thousands in Africa and Asia (I understand that a lot of that is because of poor health care and bad physical abilities to fight off ailments) that these australian snakes that get all the recognition for their venom sure do have a lot of survivors after they get bit. Puff Adders, Saw-scaled Vipers, Russell's Vipers, Cobras, Mambas, Boomslangs, etc. all have high very mortality rates and kill thousands while your aussie snakes just seem to have the potency factor in LD50 tests with no follow through in the field. Granted I haven't been bit (nor done my own field research on venom) by any of them so I can't personally compare.
I just want to know why they are considered the most venomous with such lower mortality rates. Everyone knows they have the most potent venom but I believe that the most venomous should consist of the ones you would be most fearful of being bit by with no medical attention around.
Also, I have seen photos of black mamba bites and they can have bad after affects. Does the Inland Taipan just cause bad nerve and lymph damage or does it also injure the muscle and blood cells?
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like the Inland Taipan gets a lot of recognition worldwide for its dangerous venom because it has the most potent venom but it appears a lot like the coral snake hype. The coral snake gets all this fame for being the most venomous snake in the U.S. just because it has the most potent venom, but it barely injects any venom and has only a small capacity to kill some one unless it gets rid of all its venom (I say this although I know the Inland Taipan can kill someone many times over). But you compare the coral snake to a Mojave (type A or B), E. Diamond, or any other rattler and the coral snake is a puppy dog. And the hemotoxic effects from just about any pitviper will make the wound from a coral snake look like a pimple.
Thank you for your time,
Robert C. Jadin
P.S. I apologize if I put you on the spot but I really would like to know the answers to these questions and you are the expert.
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RE: Venomous
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by chewwy on January 5, 2003
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Dr. Fry, Where was that pic taken of you catching the cotton?(nice)and I saw a pic of you on CNBC last week, they did a short piece on venom research and funding, did anyone catch it? Nothing personal with republicans, but watching the piece makes me believe they would like to cut back the funding!!!!
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RE: Venomous
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by Rabies on January 5, 2003
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The original question was which is more venomous,and drop for drop/LD50 its the Inland Taipan.What your refering to is the most dangerous,ie potent venom with a mean attitude that could be Echis,Crotalus d. terifficus,costal taipan and numerous others.The reason that in Australia that death rate so low is the advances in medicine,good ambulance service and good public awarness/education.In most of Africa and some parts of Asia all this is lacking plus on top of this you have people who still beleive in local remady's/witch Dr's.Also as you mentioned,medical facilities,for some people this can be a few days away which is more than enought time for an Echis/Bitis envomation to have its affect,plus not every med center has antivenom.You also have to see the peoples way of life,in rural Africa they are mainly agriculture workers,also their foot wear or the lack of,sandals,flip flops etc.Being the most venomous snake does not mean it is also the most dangerous.Unfortunately I don't have time to answer any more but hopefully BGF or sombody else will.
regards John
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RE: Venomous
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by dwberka on January 8, 2003
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One reason, why oxyuranus microlepidotus is responsible for considerable less death tolls than desdroaspis polylepis is the habitat and the populations of o. microlepidotus. First, o.m. lives in very remote regions of nothern and central Australia, which are (apart from the Aboriginies - and they know how to handle snakes) very sparsly populated, while d.p. lives in semi-arid regions, which are much more populated. The other reason is that o.m. isn't as common as d.p. is in Africa.
Of course the much better developed medical infrastructure, as stated by Rabies, is another reason, why o.m. is resposible for such few deaths.
Below you'll find the LD50 (subcutaneous) doses for o.m. and d.p. in mg/kg venom and their venom gland yield in mg. These figures quite clearly show which is the more venemous of these elapids.
o.m.: 0.025 40.0-110.0
d.p.: 0.32 50.0-120.0
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