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Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by Snakeman1982 on January 5, 2003
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In my years of studying and catching snakes I have heard some wild stories from people (mostly ones that don't know a thing about snakes and think they do) telling me that they have had water moccasins chase their boats and "how some kid fell in a nest of cottonmouths and was bit hundreds of times and died" (this has happened in about every lake in the U.S. apparently), crap like that. One of my favorites is the new "super snake" that has just started breeding apparently. It is a cross between the cottonmouth and the black ratsnake. It looks like a nonvenomous snake but can really kill you! Sometimes you just want to shake the ignorance out of people. I have had people tell me the wildest stories that I know aren't true and they say it like they believe it. Just about every joe blow has his own incredible story to tell about one of the five snakes he has seen in his entire life that was just amazing. And they all heard about this guy (they can't tell you his name or where their source of information is of course) who got chased and bit by a snake and died instantly.
Now I have been catching snakes most of my life (only twenty years old) and have caught hundreds of snakes. I have dealt with and free handled all types of rattlesnake species and subspecies, copperhead and cottonmouth subspecies, and a heap load of non-venomous and have never been "attacked". A lot of the wild snakes I find have been very defensive but not aggressive where I was close to being worried for my life or anything. The easiest venomous snake I have dealt with has the worst reputation (cottonmouth). Almost everytime some local says they see a snake they tell me that it is a rattlesnake, copperhead, cottonmouth, or the "red and yella kill a fella" because that is all they know. We like to call those snakes the "copperheadedrattlemoccasins". After they kill it (or try to) I quickly find out that the six foot cottonmouth was really a three foot watersnake.
I know that a few snakes like the king cobra and black mamba can actually be aggressive and have some wild stories (some that are true) but are there any true stories that any of you have on snake aggression. Snakes attacking humans and not humans messing around with them and getting bit, especially North American snakes. I would really like to hear some good true stories about wild snakes from people who know what they are talking about. Any of you had a rattlesnake actually chase after you and change direction to get you or anything?
Thank you,
Robert C. Jadin
P.S. - It sure would be a lot easier if snakes would come after us. Then I wouldn't have to spend hours looking for them all the time.
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by CAISSACA on January 6, 2003
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The onlky snakes that will ever attack you with anything other than defensive intent would be a very large constrictor that sees you as a meal.
Although large elapids such as king cobras or mambas may seem aggressive, they have no interest in you as a meal, and perceived attacks are nothing but preemptive defensive strikes, even if it may not seem that way to the human "victim".
If you walk past a pile of rocks in Africa, or past a thorny bush, and a mamba that you never saw suddenly rushes out 6 feet and nails you, you will understandably feel aggressed against. However, from the snake's point of view, a very large and potentially dangerous animal was approaching rapidly, and the snake was merely being somewhat proactive in its self-defence.
Cheers,
Wolfgang
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by jared on January 6, 2003
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Wolfgang, What about B.asper? I have seen several accounts where they supposedly ambushed people walking along paths etc without any provocation. Would this be similar to the mamba or could it be caused by a sudden increase in Heat going by there pits and they lash out not knowing what they are hitting? Also what about defensive encounters with King and cape cobras. I know that they dont "attack" in the traditional sense like a shark or big cat but I have encountered some kings who appeared more than happy to bite even if you didnt appear to be harrasing them. I dont believe snakes "attack' people, but certain species seem more prone to bite than others. Reason I ask is because I just saw a study that Whit Gibbons had done on coppers (ie more prone to bite than other SE US snakes)and was wondering if anyone had tested this on other snakes. As always, we appreciate your imput,
Jared
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by CAISSACA on January 6, 2003
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Hi Jared,
Bothrops asper ambushing people walking along paths? Hardly - they were ambushing other small mammals that also use paths or cross them - most likely, there was some sort of rodent runway just there. Obviously, if someone steps on or near the snake, it may well strike out of fear or feeling endangered. Like most people, I'd be pissed off about being bitten by a snake I had not even seen while minding my own business, but I would not call it "attacking".
Most Bothrops you find coiled near a path or anywhere else are actually remarkably passive. I remember radiotracking a 198 cm female at La Selva with a group led by Harry Greene. Once we found it, approx. half a dozen of us took turns at photographing the snake from 3-4 feet away, with strobes and everything - the snake never so much as flinched, despite the group members jostling for position and wandering around. Exactly the same applies to any other Bothrops atrox or asper I have ever seen in Nature - they are masters of camouflage, and rely on that 100% until something or someone gets just that little bit too close. In fact, I tend to think of them as bombs with a 10-15 second delay timer: if you find one asleep or just coiled up quietly, you can usually just hook it into a hooped bag and close it quickly without much fuss. However, woe betide you if you fumble, fail to bag it straight away, or drop it first. Once you *have* pissed one off, you are in for quite a show.
The Gibbons study was really interesting. I am not aware of anyone doing this elsewhere, but it would certainly make for some nice comparisons.
Cheers,
Wolfgang
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by jared on January 6, 2003
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Hhhhmmmmm, I have a few thoughts on this WW> Though it was unprovoked, and it did lash out why is this not considered an attack. I am mainly a predation and behavioral biologist at heart and wouldnt it make sense that this (though I am NOT big on saying it) could be considered an attack, much like surprising a female bear with cubs and being rushed, even though she saw you first, and you didnt see her? The snake is lashing out, defense or not it some mechanism is retaliating and thus injuring someone. I mean all shark attacks are called attacks, though most are just taste tests out of curiosity. I am well aware of the stigma attached to "snake attacks" and though they are not going to chase you down, a defensive reaction (much like the female bear) is still a reaction that can leave one lifeless. Now I am not saying they are preying on humans, just that there defense, along with large predators could still be viewed as an attack. Not bustin your chops or anything like that, just giving to ample minds something to express views over :-),
Jared
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by wls967 on January 6, 2003
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Jared, Wolfgang too, I can't recall the article. maybe it wasn't even an article, but something someone told me....Concerning Copperheads, at least in the Southeast, most times, they seem to strike without cause,....even without reason. My primary experience with them has been WC, and most times already hostile (for multiple reasons), but I have encountered plenty in the wild. They all seem more than ready to strike. More than even the C.H. Atricaudatus I normally encounter. Could it be that they tend to occupy/settle in areas where humans already exist and they are already prepared to deal with such? I have had captive specimens that were absolute angels, but what about the ones that were demons from the start?
Just curious,
wls
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by CAISSACA on January 7, 2003
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Hmmm... why do you call it unprovoked? If someone steps near a snake, the snake has good reason to fear for its safety. Granted, some individuals and some species go on the counter-offensive faster than others, but it is still all in a general context of the snake feeling threatened, rightly or wrongly.
What it really boils down to is the definition of "attack". There is an obvious grey zone between very clear self-defence (e.g., after being stepped on), and a totally premeditated attack, where a snake deliberately seeks out and injures someone. The type of thing we are discussing is somewhere in that grey zone - a pre-emptive strike when inaction might have avoided any unpleasantness, or when the snake could as easily have slid off into the undergrowth, but nonetheless in the context of a situation where the snake felt threatened by a larger creature, and was thus in the first instance defending itself.
In general, I prefer to avoid the use of the term "attack" largely for PR reasons - most people think of snakes as being aggressive creatures, and talking of snake attacks just reinforces that image. Consequently, I tend to reserve the word attack for the cases at the most extreme end of the spectrum.
Interesting thread!
Cheers,
Wolfgang
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by jared on January 7, 2003
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Grey zone it is friend. Though unprovoked, so is the female bear, if she sees you, and you dont see her she still attacks "defensively". I agree attack is bad PR but it may happen, like I said most sharks are taste testing. Either way, It will probably remain in the grey for some time. Good post,
Jared
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by ZX11 on January 8, 2003
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I was walking through the woods one day when this fella come aspeedin by me lickity-split and I hollered out "whats the rush there fella?" and he came a hollerin' back that a copperheadrattler had bit him on the behind while ha was just sittin' there in his outhouse takin care of nature. I say to ma-self "well my, my".
All of sudden, in a wink of ma eye, dere he awas!! WEEEEEEdoggies....dat ting had eyes as red as a furtruck and was a breathin' flames dat set set dawoods a fur. He had 36 rattles so I knowed he was 36 years old and a double forked tongue. An'now he was a chasin' me!!! Wit him was a choachwhip and when dey caught me, dat copperheadrattler was just abittin'me all over and dat coachwhip whipped me like nobodies' business.
Oh, yea...one time,,,at band camp.......
Seriously, I, nor anyone I know, has ever been attacked, per say. Slipped up in the presence of the wrong company...but never "attacked". But, does any think that a captive wild caught would plan an attack??
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RE: Any one ever attacked by a snake?
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by jared on January 9, 2003
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An animals which functions on instint could never plan an "attack". Its a reaction, as in crocs or sharks, feeding, or defense. A snake can "attack" out of defense as an unprovoked female bear with cubs would without you even knowing she was there. Same as a snake, totally unprovoked, you have no idea why she did it, and basically you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its just so many non snake persons say attack and everyone screams, that can't happen. Just bad PR for herpers
Jared
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