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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by puffadder7 on August 20, 2008
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when i feed my western daimond backs i dont have a problem sometimes the female will eat both of the mice just be sure to put the mice in front of the snakes, arin
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by 23bms on August 20, 2008
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It only works if you want to sit there and make sure one doesn't hog everything or that they don't grab opposite ends of the same animal. Remember, if you have to intervene, you're going to be intervening at the pointy ends and they may not appreciate your good intentions.
Generally speaking, communal housing is not a good idea unless you enjoy a great deal of aggravation.
jrb
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by agkistrodude on August 20, 2008
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Timothy, You might get more responses if you fill out your profile so people have an idea who they're talking to. But I try not to even cage them together except for breeding, but sometimes you temporarily run out of room. Even then I separate them when feeding.Why take the chance? I only tried once with rattlesnakes (2 juvi canebrakes) and they both started eating the same mouse from opposite ends.Then I had to get them apart.I had 2 copperheads do the same thing once. When they met at the middle of the mouse, one continued on, right up over the other snakes head and would have eaten it too if I didn't see them and separate them too.I just don't feel its worth the risk. Marty
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by FSB on August 20, 2008
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Possible, yes, but not at all advisable. For one thing, any time you are simultaneously working with two venomous snakes instead of just one, you are automatically doubling your risk of an accident, and you are also having to divide your focus.
But something I have noticed again and again, especially with rattlesnakes, is that if one snake happens to be a more aggressive feeder, its more timid cagemate may become stressed and start refusing food altogether. If removed from the cage, however, and given its own setup, the more shy snake will almost always begin feeding again with no problem.
Copperheads tend to get along fine in pairs, and even seem to do better and appear less stressed when they have a cagemate, but rattlesnakes, while they may den together in the winter, are not nearly so gregarious at other times. As mentioned in the other posts, I find it necessary to be very careful when feeding even the copperheads to avoid any food fights, which can cause some serious problems. I will usually get them started eating as far away from each other as possible, and if one finishes first, it may be necessary to keep it away from the slower eater with a hook or shield. Sometimes it's best just to remove one of them completely. Nonetheless, it is amazing how quickly a hairy situation can develop, and I'm sure that most keepers have at one time or another experienced the "Lady and the Tramp" spaghetti-eating scene with a mouse in the middle, only it isn't going to end with a smooch.... one snake is going right over the other! The only available solution may be to take a large pair of scissors and divide the mouse, a la King Solomon, which is going to make a mess, but it's better than having one snake injure or even eat the other. Having to treat a wound in a venomous snake is an extremely undesirable situation that can largely be avoided by simply minimizing or eliminating any opportunities for the snake to get wounded in the first place. Housing snakes separately (unless breeding them, of course) eliminates a whole category of risks.
One thing I never do is just drop food in a snake's cage and walk away (unless it's a rare problem-feeder that has to be left alone with food in a hide). Some snakes are so inactive that watching them feed is one of the most rewarding behaviors to observe, so why wouldn't anyone want to? See it through... the feeding isn't done until the snake is gaping and happily rubbing its jaws along something. (And they'll usually want some fresh water to drink right away).
Even snakes housed and fed singly can get themselves into an unforseeable variety of ridiculous, unlikely and precarious situations all of a sudden, so you want to be there when they do.
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by theemojohnm on August 20, 2008
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I agree, I house allmost ALL of my snakes (venoumous, and even the occasional non-ven) in its own enclosure.
I have had my share of scenarios where one snake will grab the food item that is in the other snakes mouth, rather than the one that is presented in front of itself. But, honestly, these situations are not all that common. A more likely scenario would be that one snakes eating would trigger a "strike fest" between the other cage mates. I am pretty confident in saying that ANY pit-viper on the same species bite woiuld not affect the other of the same species (anyone correct me if I'm wrong), you still run the risk of one snake biting the other, and puncturing an internal organ.
I agree, the biggest reason I do not do it is, even if snakes are housed together, they will often refuse food all together beacuse of the other snakes movements, feeding response.
This really depends on how big the enclosure is, based on the size of the animals housed in it.
~John.
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by Rob_Carmichael on August 21, 2008
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Feeding multiple rattlers in the same cage is a receipe for disaster - the only reason to do it is, unless it's an important breeding project, is sheer laziness, poor management protocols and complete carelessness in keeping hots responsibly. Strong opinions? Absolutely. Can it be done? Sure. Should it be done? Probably not....unless you are a public exhibit where you have a specific reason for showcasing multiple rattlesnakes in the same exhibit (i.e. "Snakes of California" at San Diego Zoo), or, breeding projects, it's just not a good idea. Folks who keep multiple snakes in the same cage usually do it because they either can't afford extra cages, or, crimpt for space - both are poor reasons to do it.
Now with those strong opinions I will show some level of hypocrisy - we do keep multiple eastern massasaugas in a breeding group in addition to pairs of Crotalus aquilus, C. ravus, C. concolor and C. willardi that we are breeding. In those situations, we separate the animals during feeding and will even lightly mist their heads before putting them back together to "wipe off" any residual rodent scent on their faces (which could cause a feeding strike). Managing multiple rattlers in the same cage also makes daily or routine maintenance very challenging and greatly increases your chance for getting bit.
In the initial post's question, to make a long answer short, don't do it.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by LarryDFishel on August 21, 2008
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"I am pretty confident in saying that ANY pit-viper on the same species bite woiuld not affect the other of the same species (anyone correct me if I'm wrong)..."
OK, you're wrong. :)
I have not yet seen a snake DIE from a bite from the same species, but I've seen plenty of them with bloody heads, so swollen their mouths won't close, sometimes lasting for days. Usually not life-threatening, but probably not very pleasant for the snake.
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by Buzztail1 on August 21, 2008
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"Can rattlesnakes sharing the same cage be feed at the same time?"
Yes, you can, assuming you mean "fed".
Of course, you can also clean a fully loaded shotgun.
Neither is a good idea, but, yes, it can be done.
R/
Karl
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RE: Feeding multiple rattlers
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by Cro on August 21, 2008
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It is best not to keep / feed multiple snakes in the same cage.
As Rob stated, sometimes it is needed when you are working with a breeding group of snakes, but it can be a real pain.
I have a group of Albino and Heterozygus for Albino Cottonmouths that I have been keeping together in a large concrete block enclosure (12 x 6 foot) to make sure that the lone male breeds with the 5 females.
All of these snakes are 3 to 4 feet long. They have a 50 gallon stock tank to swim in, as well as seperate cork bark hides for each snake.
When feeding time comes along, I have to watch them very carefully, snake hook and tongs in hand. I will make sure they are all seperated to the far corners of the cage, and inside the hide areas if possible, then give them each a medium thawed / warmed rat. They will usually bite the rat when it is presented, but will spend some time sniffing about the rat before they start eating it. If they see another snake eating a rat, they will abandon the rat they have, and they will immediatly try to go over and take the rat away from the other snake. I will have to hook them back to their own corner of the cage, and hope they again pay attention to the rat that they have bitten.
Once I know the females are gravid, I will remove them from the community setup to seperate cages. But, I feel that having them in the community setting does help with trying to breed them, even though it is a pain.
I also have a ancient timber rattlesnake that I have had in captivity for over 35 years (he was an adult when he was caught) and I always keep him in with another timber rattlesnake, as he seems to be "happier" that way. Both snakes have seperate cork bark hides, so it is fairly easy to feed both of the snakes at the same time. If they are not allready in the hides, I put the mice in the hide, then steer the snakes into the hides. Once they find the mice, they tend to eat them and not worry about what the other snake is eating. But, timber rattlesnakes are a bit more intelligent than cottonmouths, LOL.
Bottom Line, try not to keep and feed groups of snakes together, if at all possible.
Best Regards John Z
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