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RE: youtube
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by pictigaster1 on January 5, 2009
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Rob keeps willari and bushmasters curates his own museum.arin I dont believe Rob is jealous of anyone.Now I might be jealous of those cape cobras you got in november if im not my wife is.She has them on her screen saver in there deli cup.She loved them
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RE: youtube
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by Cro on January 5, 2009
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OK, enough of this.
Get this thread back on UTube videos, or just close it out.
None of these personal attacks are helping the venomous keeping hobby, and none of this has anything to do with what the SHHS is all about.
The main goals of the Southeastern Hot Herp Society are:
1. To provide a forum for the information exchange on the ecology, natural history and behavior of venomous reptiles.
2. To promote conservation and protection of venomous reptiles.
3. To encourage responsible animal husbandry by venomous reptile keepers.
4. To educate the general public to the benefits of venomous reptiles in nature.
5. To serve as a clearinghouse of information on venomous reptiles.
What started out as a nice thread about who was posting videos on UTube has now turned into a discussion of wether young Herpetologists should be allowed to keep venomous reptiles.
Rob, if you go back about 6 months in the forum, you will find that you questioned Arin's keeping of venomous snakes at a young age way back then. And you will also find that Arin tried to defend his keeping back then. Do you remember that ???
Why are we repeating this again ????????
Did you all not argue enough back then ?????
The fact is that there will always be venomous reptile keepers of ALL ages. Some start young, most often with the permission of the parents. Some start keeping venomous at older ages. Bill Haast was keeping rattlesnakes at age 13. Dean Ripa was keeping king cobras at age 15. Raymond Ditmars was keeping copperheads at age 14. Many of the site managers and members here, myself included, were keeping venomous snakes at an early age. Many more here would have kept venomous snakes at an early age, if they had been lucky enough to find one.
Arguing among ourselves about the "appropriate" age to start keeping venomous snakes will only fuel the fire that many folks have against us.
As a venomous reptile keeper, Arin needs to be as safe as possible in working with his venomous reptile collection, but so should everyone else here, no matter what their age. While a venomous bite to a young keeper will have negative effects to this hobby, especially if it makes the news, so does the bite of ANY venomous snake to anyone of ANY age.
For what it is worth, so far, all of the States that have had venomous reptile keeping legeslated out of existance, have been because of OLDER keepers who were bitten by venomous snakes that they kept, or because they were keeping venomous snakes illegally, and NOT because a young keeper got bitten by a venomous snake.
While Chris is out of Country, this site has been left to Karl, Al, and myself to keep it running. The other site managers will be helping also. We are going to be quite strict about the threads, and keeping them on topic. If the threads stray into personal attacks, the thread will be shut down.
Now, let's get back to talking about how UTube reptile related videos can be a good, educational thing, or a very bad thing for the venomous keeping community.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: youtube
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by pictigaster1 on January 5, 2009
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I am sorry that my comment led to an attack .John I will be more careful to keep it on track.I started keeping at 11.I am not opposed to young keepers at all.Some of the best posts I have read have come from arin and another young man who we both know but has not participated in this thread.Youtube is an open format for people to express them selves.FREEDOM OF SPEECH.In that aspect I support it 100%.I will choose my viewing more wisely .....Archie
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RE: youtube
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by Rob_Carmichael on January 5, 2009
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Agreed....heck, I don't keep track of who I respond to - too many folks hide behind screen names and my brain isn't big enough to keep everything straight. My only concern is for the next young kid who comes here and says "golly gee, if they can do it so can I, I'll just turn off Barney and do my own youtube of me changing my diaper and milking a black mamba at the same time:-)". I've got an off exhibit area full of hot snakes kept by under age keepers. John, I'll keep it zipped. My apologies
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RE: youtube
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by Cro on January 5, 2009
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"My only concern is for the next young kid who comes here and says "golly gee, if they can do it so can I, I'll just turn off Barney and do my own youtube of me changing my diaper and milking a black mamba at the same time:-)"
Rob, we all share that concern. That is why we as a group should support the minority of UTube videos that show responsible reptile keeping, and why we as a group should speak out against UTube videos that show unsafe reptile keeping.
Overtime, we can make a difference there. Several of the folks who were making entertainment venomous snakes videos on UTube have allready gotten a lot more serious, and are now making educational videos. That is because they respect the opinions of folks here, and have listened to us.
Also, our spotlighting several of the unsafe UTube videos has gotten those videos removed from that site. Wether it was UTube who took them down, or the makers of the videos themselves, the fact is that our comments here about unsafe reptile handling made a difference.
The more positive reptile related videos we put up, including those you are working on for the Discovery Center, the better the situation will get. Lets all follow the example set by Kentucky Reptile Zoo, Viperkeeper, and many other educational video producers, and change UTube to something that is better than it was in the past. Lets overwhelm them with great, educational, and safe reptile videos.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: youtube
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by theemojohnm on January 6, 2009
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Felt this was an important subject to post in before my departure tomorrow morning.
I am young compared to many, and realize that I started WAY too young. I was one of the lucky ones, who was just barely mature (and a great deal just plain lucky) never to have an accident. because of the fact that I was always "overly safe", I have more experience than most my age. Honestly, if you don't have a reasonable fear ("respect" is a better word) for these animals, you probably shouldn't be keeping them. Don't misunderstand me, if keeping venomous snakes keeps you from sleeping at night, then it is probably more stress than it's worth. But, you SHOULD get nervous when handling unfamiliar animals, or pinning those known nut-case snakes.
I will not enter in to the whole into the 'young vs. old" keeper debate, as I have learned that there will always be conflicting opinions, and it is more hassle than it's worth to debate. I have posted here several times on this debate, and have had some very enlightening insight from Rob on this topic a few times now, as well as useful input from other “older keepers as well as some of the ‘younger keepers” here. Honestly, although I started far too young, I do, more often than not, finding more logic in many of the "older keepers" posts. I have worked with many species, but with age comes experience, and there is no arguing that. I do feel that maturity is a MUCH bigger factor than age, however. I know 13 year olds who act 5. And some who act 30+. I am not defending older keepers or younger keepers. But one has to realize the value of experience, which really only comes with time. All of "us' "younger keepers" need to take the time to analyze EVERY bit of info that the more experienced have, and many of the "older keepers" need to realize that not all "minors" are complete, and immature babies.
I have a great deal of respect for Rob, and all of the more experienced keepers here. Those strong opinions exist for a reason, to keep this hobby going as long as we can hold on to it. I do think that "younger keepers" have all the right to work with these animals as well, but closely supervised.
As has been stated here recently, many of the “older” keepers advocating more experience, as those willing to provide it. =}
John, Karl, forgive me if I have "fed" this debate any. I am truly sorry if I have, and always remain neutral really, as there is no clear cut "right or wrong" opinion on this subject. The thing is, that here, we are able to speak openly about such controversial topics, and educate in the process.
PS: Obviously 90% of YouTube is young kids trying to im press their friends. BUT, that doesn't mean that they ALL do. Sadly, the smae 90% of kids wind up with potentially dangerous animals for the smae "cool factor". Again, not ALL.
I am truly going to miss all of you the next few months. Take Care Everyone, and Happy Herping!
-John Mendrola.
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