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IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by tigers9 on January 20, 2009
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http://www.newsandtribune.com/clarkcounty/local_story_020201133.html?keyword=topstory
Published: January 20, 2009 08:11 pm
Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
Victim could be charged for not having permit to own snake
By MATT THACKER
Matt.Thacker@newsandtribune.com
A Borden man was taken to University Hospital in Louisville on Monday night after being bitten by a deadly snake he owns. Now, he could face criminal charges.
Conservation Officer Mac Spainhour said the man owns 25 snakes, three of them venomous. Skin had grown over the mouth of his rhinoceros viper, and the owner was trying to remove the skin when the snake bit him.
Spainhour described it as a “dry bite,” meaning no venom entered the man. Chances are slim of surviving a venomous bite from a rhinoceros viper without immediately being treated, he said.
The man reportedly owns two rhinoceros vipers and a bothrops asper.
“In Clark County, it’s fairly unusual,” he said of having a venomous snake bite.
Spainhour said you need a class 3 level permit to own that type of snake in Indiana. The bite victim, who has raised snakes for about 40 years, reportedly moved to Daisy Hill Road in Borden about three to four weeks ago from Kentucky. Spainhour said he believes it would be illegal to have those snakes in Kentucky.
The victim’s name is not being released until investigators interview him because of possible charges he may face.
Spainhour said he still has to complete his investigation and decide what to do next. Possession of venomous snakes without a permit is a class C misdemeanor. The snakes also could be removed from the house, but he could possibly apply for a permit and have them returned. Spainhour said it is unlikely the snakes would be put down.
Spainhour said it is important to have a permit because of public safety.
“If there was a fire, and firefighters had to enter the house, they would not know what is there,” he said. “That’s a potential hazard to the public.”
If the snake were to escape, it would also be easier to find information about the snake if it is registered, he said.
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by Buzztail1 on January 20, 2009
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The laws concerning owning venomous snakes in both, Kentucky and Indiana, have been hashed out in this forum at great length.
It is always best to do your homework on the law before you move.
I am glad that he is going to be okay.
Rhinoceros Viper venom has the potential to affect your nervous system for the rest of your life regardless of the application of antivenom. Certainly not an animal I would want to be taking chances with.
From the article, I suspect he was trying to remove a stuck shed - probably a difficult thing to describe for a reporter not familiar with snakes. It is a good thing that the snakes won't be killed due to his failure to apply for a permit.
R/
Karl
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by FLherp on January 20, 2009
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As with other Bitis species, swelling, pain, bruising and bleeding are the most likely problems. I do not know if significant coagulopathy has been reported, but may be possible. Other effects include headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, diarrhea, etc.
I did find a record of suppurative coxitis (pus producing inflammation of the hip joint), but no prolonged neurological effects attributable to rhinoceros vipers. If they did result from a bite due to a Bitis species, it might be more readily explained by destruction of tissues at the neuro-muscular junction than direct neurotoxic effects as the venoms of Bitis species are primarily known for proteolytic activity.
From Hungary:
http://www.smw.ch/docs/pdf200x/2008/05/smw-12063.PDF
Regards,
Jeff
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by Phobos on January 21, 2009
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Widespread neuropathy has also been reported inn bites by B. nasicornis. Karl and I know (knew) the person who suffered from this...
Al
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by tigers9 on January 21, 2009
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http://www.news-tribune.net/local/local_story_021141356.html
Published: January 21, 2009 02:13 pm
SNIP
Snakes removed from Borden man’s home
Three venomous snakes were removed from a Borden man’s home, and he was issued a citation Wednesday morning.
John Haley, 58, was bitten Monday by a deadly viper snake he owned, but it was a “dry bite,” meaning no venom entered his body. He spent a day at University Hospital in Louisville before being released.
Haley was issued a citation for illegal possession of a venomous snake, a violation of the class three permit, which is required to own such a snake.
Haley owned two rhinoceros vipers and a bothrop asper. Indiana Conservation Officer Mac Spainhour said they were removed from the home, but Haley can reapply to have them returned. He owns 25 snakes.
While stressing the importance of having the proper permit, Spainhour said Haley is experienced in dealing with the animals.
“The way some people are about dogs ... that’s the way this guy is about snakes,” Spainhour said. “These aren’t just snakes to him.”
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by Cro on January 21, 2009
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Sounds like a lucky man. He got a dry bite, and Indiana is going to let him apply for a permit to keep his snakes, and pay a fine.
It is good that he was not trying to help that Bothrops asper shed, or we might have been reading a very different story.
Lets hope his neighbors do not get up in arms about his collection, and start trying to get local legislation passed that will create further laws that restrict reptile keeping in that area.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by FLherp on January 21, 2009
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If it was noted from this bite, was it published? A single incident is an interesting anecdote, but does not mean that it should be expected with bites from this species. Were other systemic venom effects noted? What treatment did the patient receive?
Neuropathy can have numerous causes - autoimmune disorders, diabetes, medications, vitamin deficiency, inherited disorders, disease processes, toxic exposures (usually heavy metals), injury etc. How soon after the bite did the neuropathy emerge? Can it really be attributed to the bite or is it merely a concurrent event? Did the bite or its treatment trigger or exacerbate an underlying condition? Was it determined to be idiopathic neuropathy or neuropathy of unknown etiology?
There are very few reports of bites specifically attributable to B. nasicornis, but it would be likely that they would exhibit the same signs and symptoms as other Bitis species. Attributing the neuropathy to the bite is a cum hoc fallacy - correlation does not imply causation. At the very least, it would require further investigation.
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by AquaHerp on January 21, 2009
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Locale of the animal is a factor as well. The venoms of nasicornis vary in geographical locales as with many species.
DH
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by Buzztail1 on January 21, 2009
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This is what my friend posted about his bite on another forum:
"Took one from a Bitis nasicornis in the left index finger during the release stage after a final Baytryl injection. The animal was seized by A.C. and transport to me in 25F temps without heat it was aprox. 12-12 inches long. I held the finger under cold running water and "milked" quite a bit of pinkish plasma like fluid out of it. During this time my wife grabs 5 ancient vials of SAIMR and the protocol for that particular species. !0 mins in finger starts to swell and we head to the ER. We called ahead and had the start another 40 vials of SAIMR our way from Denver. Lond story short the bite had more neurotoxic properties than cytotoxic and I was on my feet after a couple days in the horsepistol. My hand tripled in size for 12 hrs then returned to normal size over a 2-3 day period. however there were some real pretty yellos purple swirly colors all over my hand for about a week. The real damage became apparent a week or two later as I developed severe chronic upper back and thoracic pain. The venom "facilitated" the pain recepters fed buy the nerve bundle that exits the the spine at about T8-T9. A rhizotomy is the only real solution and until I find a surgeon willing to do it I get live legal "zoomies". Not as fun as some would think, makes it awfull tough to find decent paying work."
Unfortunately, he passed away last year. I miss talking to him late on sleepless nights about the long-term effects of his bite and all the new things that the doctors were trying to help him.
Once you get bitten and are experiencing all of the negative effects, it is too late for all of the "the book says this doesn't happen" or "nobody has documented this effect before". It is happening to you! And the concern of most people at the time is "Am I going to survive this?" Even 90% of the questions we get about venoms here are only asking about death. Nobody seems to understand that just living through the envenomation is not the end of the story. Some bites have life-changing results.
Be careful!
R/
Karl
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